HUD vs NOLA Residents: Please Read

[steffie]

Please read this and respond. Just when you think it can't get any worse.....


Dear Stephanie,
On Martin Luther King's birthday, after being shut out of their homes for a year and a half, residents of the St. Bernard housing development in New Orleans took matters into their own hands. They entered their apartments, without permission, to the cheers of hundreds of supporters.1 HUD (Department of Housing and Urban development), the federal agency that's supposed to help provide low-income housing, responded by suing them for monetary damages and asking a judge to throw them out of their homes—homes that are structurally intact and can be made livable with minimal investment.2,3

HUD can't—or won't—open up perfectly good housing, but it finds a way to sue the people it's supposed to serve? Join us in demanding that HUD drop its lawsuit and that Congress investigate HUD's plans to destroy public housing in New Orleans. It takes only a moment:

http://www.colorofchange.org/hud/?id=1789-135980

HUD is suing the residents because they stand in the way of HUD's plan to destroy four of New Orleans' major public housing communities. HUD wants to demolish 4500 units of low-income housing and replace them with just 800 units, less than half of which would be designated as low-income—that's about one new affordable housing unit for every ten destroyed.

HUD has tried to justify the plan by saying that the buildings are so damaged that they are dangerous to residents. That isn't true. Faculty from the Architecture Department at MIT filed papers in court saying there was no structural damage that justified demolition. In fact, the buildings are far superior to the buildings that would replace them. 4

HUD has also said it would cost more to repair the buildings than to rebuild them. That isn't true either. The cost to demolish and rebuild public housing would be over $1.04 billion. Just a third of that would be enough to clean up and even totally modernize the buildings. 5

Pushing poor people out

HUD's plan would put money in the pockets of private developers while permanently displacing thousands of low-income residents, in clear violation of HUD's mission, which, in addition to fostering home ownership, is to "…increase access to affordable housing free from discrimination." 6

After months of organizing, marching in the streets, and fighting in court, the residents of the St. Bernard public housing development took the battle to save their community one step further. They celebrated Martin Luther King Day by going home and cleaning up from the hurricane and government neglect. The residents are proving that their units are livable and making real what every politician has said is their right: the right to return. And the main force standing in their way is the federal agency that's supposed to be on their side.

Congress needs to exercise its oversight responsibility with HUD. Join us in demanding that it does while letting the residents of the St. Bernard development know we stand with them. One minute of your time can make a difference.

http://www.colorofchange.org/hud/?id=1789-135980

Thank You and Peace,

-- James, Van, Clarissa, Gabriel, Liat, and the rest of the ColorOfChange.org team
January 29th, 2007

References:

1. Housing agencies sue to remove protesters, The Times Picayune, 1-23-07
http://www.colorofchange.org/ref/hud_1.html

New Orleans tussles over public housing, Los Angeles Times, 1-23-07
http://www.colorofchange.org/ref/hud_2.html

2. New Orleans: HUD Policies Limiting Housing for Poor, Truthout, 12-29-06
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/67/24786

3. Condition of the Four New Orleans Housing Projects Slated for Demolition, Gulf Coast Fair Housing Network
http://fairhousingnetwork.org/node/10

4. Ibid.

5. Affordable Housing Fact Sheet, Loyola Law Clinic
http://www.justiceforneworleans.org/index.php?module=article&view=72

6. Department of Housing and Urban Development Mission Statement
http://www.hud.gov/library/bookshelf12/hudmission.cfm

7. Ideas & Trends: Unbuilding: All Fall Down, New York Times, 11-19-06
http://www.colorofchange.org/hud/arch.htm






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[NOLA]

Interestingly, one of the perps cutting down the fences at St. Bernard was wanted for murder. The cops on the scene recognized him and picked him up on the spot. Maybe the system can keep this creep off the streets for longer than 60 days....

http://www.nola.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-3/1170055748200240.xml?NOED&coll=1

http://www.nola.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1169967670175150.xml?NPJG&coll=1

[Blitzzzzz]

Interestingly, one of the perps cutting down the fences at St. Bernard was wanted for murder. The cops on the scene recognized him and picked him up on the spot. Maybe the system can keep this creep off the streets for longer than 60 days....

http://www.nola.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-3/1170055748200240.xml?NOED&coll=1

http://www.nola.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1169967670175150.xml?NPJG&coll=1

Typically NOPD, have to wait for the criminals to come to them!

I wouldn't call these folks perps. It's clear to anyone who'll look that HUD and HANO are in bed with the developers and just waiting for the smoke to clear so they can redevelop these properties for profit. Many of the extended musical families in New Orleans have found shelter in the bricks for generations which is more that can be said so far for the "Musicians Village."

Thanks for posting this one, Steffie. This board isn't real good at participating on posts like this, maybe this one will be different!:cool:

[Mardigrasbaby35]

very hot and devisive topic for those of us living in NOLa - i make no comment on this one, but will be interested to see what those looking in from the outside think....

[Blitzzzzz]

very hot and devisive topic for those of us living in NOLa - i make no comment on this one, but will be interested to see what those looking in from the outside think....

MGB35,
I'm curious as to why this is a "hot and divisive" topic for locals. If you follow the links you find ample evidence that the rationale for tearing these projects down is not supported by structural or economic facts. In a city so desparate for housing if the housing is repairable and livable what possible logic would support tearing it down?
Curious, non-local, minds want to know?:cool:

[ohio]

The only way this reads to me is that the Disney-fication squad is at work. Perhaps some locals can enlighten if that is not the case....

[mightyradgumbo]

The only way this reads to me is that the Disney-fication squad is at work. Perhaps some locals can enlighten if that is not the case....

I agree with that, Bry. MGB, I would love to hear your take on this. Anybody that has gone through local issues knows it may not always be as it seems to the outside world. I got the same email, Steffie and the folks for this organization are usually for the best interests of the residents.

[saturn]

very hot and devisive topic for those of us living in NOLa - i make no comment on this one, but will be interested to see what those looking in from the outside think....

This is why I don't leap in on these topics -- not because I am not interested, but because I don't really understand all the underlying issues and machinations going on.

I find U.S. politics and policies very confusing :confused:-- I have enough trouble figuring out Canajun ones.

[mdfest]

When I read these items, I ask myself- Self, what is the other sides point of view?
I dont know that answer, so dont comment on the thread, nor do I forward boilerplate emails.

[ibjamn]

There are two sides to every story. While I agree that there is not nearly enough low-income housing to bring many of our poor people back, I can also see the other side. As a home health nurse, pre-thing I went into every NOLA project, every day. They were less than desirable places to live.
Has anyone been by St, Thomas, Desire or Fischer housing projects lately? All are former projects that were torn down, now there are hundreds of beautiful, brand-new townhouses, soon to open as section 8 housing.
There are two sides.

[NOLA]

Anybody that has gone through local issues knows it may not always be as it seems to the outside world.

Definitely two sides to this issue. Some of the projects (C.J. Peete in Central City comes to mind) were in such a deplorable condition pre-K that they needed to be torn down. Others, like Lafitte, were structurally sound and were not badly damaged by the storm and the after-effects (i.e. minimal flooding). I cannot understand the desire to raze the structures that were not damaged and that were in good condition to start with.

The other issue that comes up (and must be dealt with) is the crime and social problems that arise in these densely populated, low income projects.

The real problem in my mind is the lack of progress in either direction. Either tear them down and start building new housing, or re-open what's there (or preferably both, with some logic applied to the process). The lack of movement in either direction is maddening.

[Frosty]

This is a perfect example of why things don't get done in this country. For example, why so many homes in NO remain in the same condition as they were a year ago. It is due to the rights of the individual. Another nation and its government (Cuba for example), could just come right in, tear the project down, and build what they want. Nobody can say boo about it. The result is things get done. The problem is people get trampled. In this country, everybody gets a voice. These people who moved back in get sued instead of having the military come in and remove them. They have rights and those rights are protected, even if the eventual process results in their removal. That removal still needs to go through channel's. Just like with the houses that are left in post Katrina condition. The government can not just come in and clear them immediately. The owners' rights are protected. It is often frustrating and ineffective at recovery, but it is fundamental to our nation's beliefs. Other countries may point fingers at us, but their premise is that the building is more important than the person. That's not the case in this country.

[Mardigrasbaby35]

As others have pointed out the other side of the story so well, i let it be left at that - there are always two sides .... and i do agree, we need affordable housing in NOLa - but going back to what we had (which was deplorable) is not the solution......

[Frosty]

In Chicago, we have torn down our gawdawful high rise housing projects and replaced them with townhouse style units and mixed income housing. While not everyone is happy, the new units are doing a lot for the neighborhoods that were once choked off by the massive projects. And, the new communities allow for integration of low income residents instead of isolation. True, part of the process has driven drug dealers and gangs into some of the burbs, but, it has also scattered them where they and their power are less concentrated.

[NOLA]

As others have pointed out the other side of the story so well, i let it be left at that - there are always two sides .... and i do agree, we need affordable housing in NOLa - but going back to what we had (which was deplorable) is not the solution......

I know, MGB, I tried so hard not to wade into this but I just couldn't resist.

[NOLA]

This is a perfect example of why things don't get done in this country. For example, why so many homes in NO remain in the same condition as they were a year ago. It is due to the rights of the individual. Another nation and its government (Cuba for example), could just come right in, tear the project down, and build what they want. Nobody can say boo about it. The result is things get done. The problem is people get trampled. In this country, everybody gets a voice. These people who moved back in get sued instead of having the military come in and remove them. They have rights and those rights are protected, even if the eventual process results in their removal. That removal still needs to go through channel's. Just like with the houses that are left in post Katrina condition. The government can not just come in and clear them immediately. The owners' rights are protected. It is often frustrating and ineffective at recovery, but it is fundamental to our nation's beliefs. Other countries may point fingers at us, but their premise is that the building is more important than the person. That's not the case in this country.

EXACTLY! I've been telling folks this for months now. When a society respects individual property rights, it takes the govenrment a long time to develop the will (and the legal means) to compel those owners to do something they are otherwise not inclined to do.

There was a Senate hearing here in New Orleans yesterday concerning the slow pace of the recovery. All these blowhard politicians whining and voicing surprise about the slow pace of recovery. Please. These guys have been in D.C. long enough to know how the federal bureaucracy works. Slowly. Either their expression of surprise is completely fake, or they really are as clueless as they all appear. Or maybe both.

And believe me, its no better in Baton Rouge or City Hall. Add all three together and you get exactly what we've got.

Daily rant over.

[pokerchick66]

EXACTLY! I've been telling folks this for months now. When a society respects individual property rights, it takes the govenrment a long time to develop the will (and the legal means) to compel those owners to do something they are otherwise not inclined to do.

There was a Senate hearing here in New Orleans yesterday concerning the slow pace of the recovery. All these blowhard politicians whining and voicing surprise about the slow pace of recovery. Please. These guys have been in D.C. long enough to know how the federal bureaucracy works. Slowly. Either their expression of surprise is completely fake, or they really are as clueless as they all appear. Or maybe both.

And believe me, its no better in Baton Rouge or City Hall. Add all three together and you get exactly what we've got.

Daily rant over.

Good rant.

[Frosty]

EXACTLY! I've been telling folks this for months now. When a society respects individual property rights, it takes the govenrment a long time to develop the will (and the legal means) to compel those owners to do something they are otherwise not inclined to do.

There was a Senate hearing here in New Orleans yesterday concerning the slow pace of the recovery. All these blowhard politicians whining and voicing surprise about the slow pace of recovery. Please. These guys have been in D.C. long enough to know how the federal bureaucracy works. Slowly. Either their expression of surprise is completely fake, or they really are as clueless as they all appear. Or maybe both.

And believe me, its no better in Baton Rouge or City Hall. Add all three together and you get exactly what we've got.

Daily rant over.

It's not up to Nagin or Blanco or FEMA to remove or gut every house. It is up to them to ensure that assistance is provided to those in need. And Congress needs to make sure the government does their part which is to get assistance into the hands of the people and then make sure the job of reconstructing the levees and seawalls is done properly. They don't need to worry about why Aunt betty's house isn't gutted as much as worry about ensuring there is a reason to gut it.

[NOLA]

It's not up to Nagin or Blanco or FEMA to remove or gut every house. It is up to them to ensure that assistance is provided to those in need. And Congress needs to make sure the government does their part which is to get assistance into the hands of the people and then make sure the job of reconstructing the levees and seawalls is done properly. They don't need to worry about why Aunt betty's house isn't gutted as much as worry about ensuring there is a reason to gut it.

Amen.

[Amy Winette]

When I read these items, I ask myself- Self, what is the other sides point of view?
I dont know that answer, so dont comment on the thread, nor do I forward boilerplate emails.

Yep, I usually know just enough to put my foot in my mouth and make an ass of myself so I just read em, I do like reading them and being educated though!

[Blitzzzzz]

You guys and gals need to go read the links that were posted with Steffie's original post. Plenty to chew on there. The truth of the matter is that only a limited number of the Townhouses that were built at St. Thomas were Section 8 housing, along with "Market rate" housing (read expensive) and a Wal-Mart, and that limited number represented a tiny percentage of the units that existed before the project was razed.
"Deplorable conditions" are something that the folks who live there suffer with everyday. It says a lot that those people would prefer to return to New Orleans and live in those "deplorable conditions," than stay away. The MIT professor who studied the units say they are structurally sound and repairable for much less than replacing them would cost. If those communities need help in protecting themselves that help should be provided just as it is elsewhere. No one doubts that these communities need help, they wouldn't be in Public Housing if they didn't. To turn them away so the land can be "Re-developed" is just the sort of callousness we should all be fighting against.:cool:

[swampwoman]

Definitely two sides to this issue. Some of the projects (C.J. Peete in Central City comes to mind) were in such a deplorable condition pre-K that they needed to be torn down. Others, like Lafitte, were structurally sound and were not badly damaged by the storm and the after-effects (i.e. minimal flooding). I cannot understand the desire to raze the structures that were not damaged and that were in good condition to start with.

The other issue that comes up (and must be dealt with) is the crime and social problems that arise in these densely populated, low income projects.

The real problem in my mind is the lack of progress in either direction. Either tear them down and start building new housing, or re-open what's there (or preferably both, with some logic applied to the process). The lack of movement in either direction is maddening.
the housing developments should all be torn down

next time you're in New Orleans take a gander at one of the projects - B.W.Cooper (Calliope) comes to mind - blocks and blocks and blocks of high density developments, and the first floors of those buildings had 4 feet of water - just think of the liability if people start to get sick from inadequate remediation - this is one of the main reasons they are not opening them up. St. Bernard housing project got flooded too, and has buildings with gaping holes in the roofs, wide open windows on the second floors and no work has been done yet - who knows what vermin (rats, pigeons, snakes, etc.) have taken up residence in the open apartments. C.J.Peete is in the same condition.

Another issue is people who have lived in these developments for 30-40 years, and are coming back saying they want back in "their" home, well is it theirs to claim? Paying $100 rent a month for a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment does not equate ownership - this creates a cycle of generation after generation believing they are entitled to live in subsidized housing, instead of the initial intention of public housing which was a hand up until one could live on their own without reliance on a lifetime of government assistance. New Orleans does not have the financial resources, especially now after Katrina to support an entire subculture living on government assistance.

[bluesgirl]

the housing developments should all be torn down

next time you're in New Orleans take a gander at one of the projects - B.W.Cooper (Calliope) comes to mind - blocks and blocks and blocks of high density developments, and the first floors of those buildings had 4 feet of water - just think of the liability if people start to get sick from inadequate remediation - this is one of the main reasons they are not opening them up. St. Bernard housing project got flooded too, and has buildings with gaping holes in the roofs, wide open windows on the second floors and no work has been done yet - who knows what vermin (rats, pigeons, snakes, etc.) have taken up residence in the open apartments. C.J.Peete is in the same condition.

Another issue is people who have lived in these developments for 30-40 years, and are coming back saying they want back in "their" home, well is it theirs to claim? Paying $100 rent a month for a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment does not equate ownership - this creates a cycle of generation after generation believing they are entitled to live in subsidized housing, instead of the initial intention of public housing which was a hand up until one could live on their own without reliance on a lifetime of government assistance. New Orleans does not have the financial resources, especially now after Katrina to support an entire subculture living on government assistance.

swampwoman, these are the thoughts that I have every time I hear about the people in public housing saying that they want to go home. Unless the people are elderly or disabled, they should try to take the opportunity to finally get out of public housing and move someplace better. Some people won't do anything unless they are forced to. I feel heartless every time I have those thoughts, but I know it's true. I know it's the only place many people have known, though, but then I think of all of the people who move every day to make their lives better.

[Blitzzzzz]

the housing developments should all be torn down
next time you're in New Orleans take a gander at one of the projects - B.W.Cooper (Calliope) comes to mind - blocks and blocks and blocks of high density developments, and the first floors of those buildings had 4 feet of water - just think of the liability if people start to get sick from inadequate remediation - this is one of the main reasons they are not opening them up. St. Bernard housing project got flooded too, and has buildings with gaping holes in the roofs, wide open windows on the second floors and no work has been done yet - who knows what vermin (rats, pigeons, snakes, etc.) have taken up residence in the open apartments. C.J.Peete is in the same condition.

Since you apparently didn't read any of the attached information, I'll post it for you.
From the Gulf Coast Fair Housing website <fairhousingnetwork.org>

C.J. Peete


I found the foundation, brick masonry wall and roofs of buildings at CJ Peete to be substantially intact and recoverable. Despite missing windows and many holes in the roof, I did not see widespread water damage to units within. Many units are in good condition. Several I inspected are essentially in "move-in" condition, upon thorough cleaning and some repair to windows. Most interior surfaces of units require only minor plaster patching, baseboard replacement and painting. However vandalism and theft is apparent and the buildings need to be secured to prevent further damage.
(John Fernandez, Associate Professor of Building Technology, MIT Dept. of Architecture)
This is the essentially the same report for all four projects slated for demolition! In addition, check this out.

New York Times Architecture critic Nicolai Ouroussoff, criticized this demolition saying on November 19, 2006: “Modestly scaled, they include some of the best public housing built in the United States. . . . Solidly built, the buildings’ detailed brickwork, tile roofs and wrought-iron balustrades represent a level of craft more likely found on an Ivy League campus than in a contemporary public housing complex.”




New Orleans does not have the financial resources, especially now after Katrina to support an entire subculture living on government assistance.

HANO's own documents show that:
Lafitte could be repaired for $20million, even completely overhauled for $85 million, yet estimate for demolition and rebuilding many fewer units will cost $100m;

St. Bernard could be repaired for $41m, substantially modernized for $130m, demolition and rebuilding LESS UNITS will cost $197m;
BW Cooper could be substantially renovated for $135 million compared to $221m to demolish and rebuild LESS UNITS;
HANOs own insurance company reported that it would take less than $5000 each to repair CJ Peete apartments.
St. Bernard will go from 1400 units to 595 apartments – of which 145 will be market rate – leaving 160 low-income public housing units and 160 tax credit (mixed income) units.
CJ Peete will go from 723 units to 410 units – 154 public housing; 133 tax credit (mixed income) and 123 market.
BW Cooper will go from 1546 units to 410 units – 154 public housing, 133 tax credit (mixed income) and 123 market.
Lafitte will go from 865 to only a fraction as well.Meanwhile:

The developers of these properties will get federal assistance to demolish habitable affordable housing in the following amounts:
$12.8m in Go Zone tax credits for Lafitte, plus $16.3m in CDBG funds
$7.4m in Go Zone tax credits for St. Bernard plus $27m in CDBG funds
$6.9m in Go Zone tax credits for BW Cooper plus $27m in CDBG funds
$7.3m in Go Zone tax credits for CJ Peete plus $27m in CDBG fundsAnother issue is people who have lived in these developments for 30-40 years, and are coming back saying they want back in "their" home, well is it theirs to claim? Paying $100 rent a month for a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment does not equate ownership - this creates a cycle of generation after generation believing they are entitled to live in subsidized housing, instead of the initial intention of public housing which was a hand up until one could live on their own without reliance on a lifetime of government assistance.

This sort of sanctimonious preaching to people who may well have changed your sheets and cleaned the toilet in your hotel room is remarkable. Even if that were an accurate picture of the original intent of public housing, it bears no relationship to the New Orleans of today.
Not only are you wrong on the facts, but your lack of compassion astounds me.

[Blitzzzzz]

UNITED STATES HOUSING ACT OF 1937
SEC. 2. DECLARATION OF POLICY AND PUBLIC HOUSING AGENCY
ORGANIZATION.

(a) D
ECLARATION OF POLICY.—It is the policy of the United States—
(1) to promote the general welfare of the Nation by employing the funds and credit of the Nation, as provided in this Act—
(A) to assist States and political subdivisions of States to remedy the unsafe housing conditions and the acute shortage of decent and safe dwellings for low-income families;
(B) to assist States and political subdivisions of States to address the shortage of housing affordable to low-income families; and
(C) consistent with the objectives of this title, to vest in public housing
agencies that perform well, the maximum amount of responsibility and flexibility in program administration, with appropriate accountability to public housing residents, localities, and the general public;
(2) that the Federal Government cannot through its direct action alone provide for the housing of every American citizen, or even a majority of its citizens, but it is the responsibility of the Government to promote and protect the independent and collective actions of private citizens to develop housing and strengthen their own neighborhoods;
(3) that the Federal Government should act where there is a serious need that private citizens or groups cannot or are not addressing responsibly; and hereafter be used by the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development to determine allocations or provide assistance for operating subsidies or
modernization for certain State and city funded and locally developed public housing units,

(4) that our Nation should promote the goal of providing decent and affordable housing for all citizens through the efforts and encouragement of Federal, State, and local governments, and by the independent and collective actions of private citizens,organizations, and the private sector.

[swampwoman]

Please tell me how you know what "is" the New Orleans of today when you do not live here - your profile says you live in Ann Arbor? Is that anywhere near Detroit? No I don't think so...

Have you ever lived here? Have you seen the developments? What kind of credentials does this man have to rate the condition of the developments? Was he allowed inside? Or was it speculation from outside the barbed wire fencing? Is this person a contractor that knows how to figure out costs of rebuilding, and did he factor in the exhorbitant allowance for the huge increase in price of materials post- Katrina to rebuild here? Yes there is a need for low income housing, Section 8 just raised their rental reimbursement here so people of low income can get housing away from the developments, my statements advocate tearing down the high density housing in favor of more mixed income neighborhoods.

Your tossing around of facts, from one source no less will never reveal the actual state of affairs here and insulting me by labelling the commentary as "sanctimonious" and accusing me of having a "lack of compassion" does not automatically bully your argument as the only correct one. Someone asked for opinions from New Orleanians, it was given, what gives you the right to judge something written by a local who sees the problems, experiences first hand what is going on here, has lived through the devastation of Katrina, is helping to rebuild this community and trying to decide whether or not to pitch in the towel cause it might not be worth it all in the end to stay here the way things are headed now. What have you done exactly? Perhaps you can redirect your energy to lobby the insurance industry to lighten the load on homeowners and business insurance, cause without insurance the entire city will shut down and Jazz Fest will cease to exist. It has already begun, people are quietly abandoning the ship, and its not stopping - you'll never read that in any of your housing advocates reports.

and I am the one changing MY sheets and cleaning MY toilet in my own home here in New Orleans, thank you very much

Check yourself Blitzzzzzz.....

[jckstraw]

swampwoman as always is the shizznit!

love ya girlie and soooo excited to be staying with you this year!!!!

[rosetree]

Thank you Swampwoman!!! I am just too tired to enter into this fray...you were great...

[pokerchick66]

Thank you Swampwoman!!! I am just too tired to enter into this fray...you were great...

Yea, I'd like to meet her. :)

[chrisjoseph]

do i need to delete this thread? I'd rather not...what the consensus?

[Mardigrasbaby35]

Please tell me how you know what "is" the New Orleans of today when you do not live here - your profile says you live in Ann Arbor? Is that anywhere near Detroit? No I don't think so...

Have you ever lived here? Have you seen the developments? What kind of credentials does this man have to rate the condition of the developments? Was he allowed inside? Or was it speculation from outside the barbed wire fencing? Is this person a contractor that knows how to figure out costs of rebuilding, and did he factor in the exhorbitant allowance for the huge increase in price of materials post- Katrina to rebuild here? Yes there is a need for low income housing, Section 8 just raised their rental reimbursement here so people of low income can get housing away from the developments, my statements advocate tearing down the high density housing in favor of more mixed income neighborhoods.

Your tossing around of facts, from one source no less will never reveal the actual state of affairs here and insulting me by labelling the commentary as "sanctimonious" and accusing me of having a "lack of compassion" does not automatically bully your argument as the only correct one. Someone asked for opinions from New Orleanians, it was given, what gives you the right to judge something written by a local who sees the problems, experiences first hand what is going on here, has lived through the devastation of Katrina, is helping to rebuild this community and trying to decide whether or not to pitch in the towel cause it might not be worth it all in the end to stay here the way things are headed now. What have you done exactly? Perhaps you can redirect your energy to lobby the insurance industry to lighten the load on homeowners and business insurance, cause without insurance the entire city will shut down and Jazz Fest will cease to exist. It has already begun, people are quietly abandoning the ship, and its not stopping - you'll never read that in any of your housing advocates reports.

and I am the one changing MY sheets and cleaning MY toilet in my own home here in New Orleans, thank you very much

Check yourself Blitzzzzzz.....

From another born and raised native New Orleanian....AMEN.

[Mardigrasbaby35]

do i need to delete this thread? I'd rather not...what the consensus?
Why delete - its people sharing their views on two different sides of a subject...nothing has gotten ugly....

[mdfest]

Definitely dont delete. I find it interesting that the locals seem to be of the same general opinion.

[ibjamn]

From another born and raised native New Orleanian....AMEN.

another amen for swampwoman, put it better than I could have.

[pokerchick66]

another amen for swampwoman, put it better than I could have.

Now that's saying something! ;)

Another vote for no delete.

[steffie]

Sorry guys. This is usually such a peaceful bored and I didn't mean for it to become heated. I just wanted the opinion of the locals and those who are more educated on the matter the email I received discusssed.:o

[rosetree]

Don't be sorry steffie....open discussion is good, and hopefully will be good for us here too :) The more people know and understand what is happening down here, the more that people will try and get involved by volunteering, writing congress, etc. This is not just New Orleans' problem. This is a major problem for the whole country and will be for years to come.

[pokerchick66]

Don't be sorry steffie....open discussion is good, and hopefully will be good for us here too :) The more people know and understand what is happening down here, the more that people will try and get involved by volunteering, writing congress, etc. This is not just New Orleans' problem. This is a major problem for the whole country and will be for years to come.

Amen, Jim!

[mightyradgumbo]

The issue has been, since the very first post-K days, a recovery effort that has been left, mainly,to the local residents. This is a case where the buildings are simply habitable or not. yet, nothing gets done.

My question for those advocating tearing the existing structures down is this. Do you also agree with reducing the number of units from 4500 to 800? Why would there be such a drasitic reduction in the number of units?
Because they want to put up better looking, more expensive units that limit a)the number of people returning to those units and b)"upgrade" the residential base, if you get my drift.

This sounds to me like the same kind of stuff that happens all over the country when the old "projects", as we call them in Boston, are now eyesores on the community's landscape. Gentrification is the PC word, I believe. Luckily, community activists in this city continuously fight for the issues. So as far as having to be from New Orleans to know, I would have to disagree with that. Many major cities have gone through it even without the devastation that the Thing has wrought .

As far as the comments someone made regarding the fact that this is not their homes. Yes, while paying rent does not equate to home ownership, it does equate to residency. The fact is that these people prolly have no where else they either want to be or are able to go. Or are you suggesting they go to some other city and be poor and live in that city's low-income housing?

Sure these people should use it as a temporary means, but from a standpoint of sociology, it is a cycle that is difficult to break. Given the fact that no one on this bored (I think, at least) has very much faith in the local, state or national govt. response to all other issues, it is safe to say that the low-income support in New Orleans isn't there to help these people get out of that cycle, either.
/Gumbo stepping down off his soapbox/
This ad paid for by the Gumbo for President in '08 campaign committee

[jack03]

While I am currently living in Chicago, I used to live in New Orleans and am an architect so I have been paying attention to the change over of housing projects both here and in NO and elsewhere. Someone noted that the housing developments in NO are nicer than most in the city. This is certianly the case. Even in their poor condition before the flood, the buildings themselves are well built and low-rise as opposed to the large 15-30 story buildings in chicago and other cities. While it makes sense to take these down as is being done and redevelop, it seems that might not be necessary in new orleans. A decent solution may be to renovate the existing buildings and transform them into mixed income develpoments. Some of the units can remain public housing and section 8 and some can go market rate. If the city is willing to let developers build new on the site, let them renovate. For the most part public housing developments are much better constructed than private developments. I am all for letting people come back to their homes, but the housing pre katrina was in bad shape and the time involved in starting over will not allow many poor to come back. Renovations can be done in stages and more quickly allowing people to get back. Eventually the public housing units could even be moved towards a rent controled private development much like is done in new york. Just some ideas...

[steffie]

Here is an interesting article I found yesterday from Fortune 5oo.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/08/21/8383661/index.htm

[Amy Winette]

do i need to delete this thread? I'd rather not...what the consensus?

I don't think so Chris, discussion is good.

Blitzz, I love ya baby, but you asked why threads like this don't get all that much discussion on the board . . . A few of us answered that without knowing all the facts, we don't like to jump in because we will certainly be accused of not knowing all the facts, which, with all due respect, is exactly what you did.

If you want people to engage in these discussions, you need to let em answer with whatever information and viewpoint they have and let it be at that. Present your view, let other folks present theirs, and let it be a discussion . . .

[Blitzzzzz]

I don't think so Chris, discussion is good..
Chris, surely this doesn't rise to any standard that would warrant censorship. Prompting 4 or 5 locals to respond from the heart is a valuable thing, even if I get flamed in the process.

If you want people to engage in these discussions, you need to let em answer with whatever information and viewpoint they have and let it be at that. Present your view, let other folks present theirs, and let it be a discussion . . .

I accept that I may have been too blunt, but I think some of the other posters that answered made similiar points. I apologize for the offense, but hope it casused some self reflection as well.

Yes, Ann Arbor is near Detroit. All my life I have heard otherwise good friends say things about "low-income" read black neighborhoods in Detroit that were similiar to what was posted here. I work at a largely urban university with a very mixed student population which also exposes me to comments about "low income" students. Make of that what you will, I am not un-familiar with this phenomena and it saddens me each time. I may need to check my sense of tact, but others need to check their motives.

Blitzz, I love ya baby, but you asked why threads like this don't get all that much discussion on the board . . . A few of us answered that without knowing all the facts, we don't like to jump in because we will certainly be accused of not knowing all the facts, which, with all due respect, is exactly what you did..

I can't agree with the not knowing the facts part. It seems clear from reading those posts that folks didn't read the links attached to the original message. If they had, they wouldn't have questioned the credentials of the MIT architecture Professor who inspected the projects, asked if he had been inside, etc. Instead, they would have known who he was, that he had been inside and seen the pictures that are attached to his assessment of each project. They would also know that the numbers posted are accurate, or as accurate as HANO (Housing Authority of New Orleans) is capable of creating and that they clearly show that from a monetary point of view rehabilitation is the only logical choice for New Orleans in 2007. The Thing is just being used as an excuse to do some long desired back tracking from housing the underclass in New Orleans. St. Thomas was the first wave, this is the second. If that offends people, I can't help it. :cool:

[Amy Winette]

Nope, I think that discussion is great, sometimes tone is just difficult in an online world, you know?

I for one didn't have time to read all the links, that's why I'm not adding anything of substance, but I think that READING all of the posts is very educational and healthy, and for that reason I very much enjoy these types of threads.

Carry on!

[rosetree]

So I'm now going to enter the fray....first let me say that what I say is my opinion and interpretation of the issue, and only mine....
I understand what people are trying to say in the previous posts. But you have to understand that these are unprecedented times. You can not compare this to gentrification---it is not a slow shift in housing from poor to middle class. I also was late getting into this because the tone could get into name calling, race baiting, and just nastyness. I wanted to stay above that.
My view is that generations have milked the system to the point that a solution was not going to happen in my lifetime....Then Katrina hit...all at once (and this is sort of twisted) we HAD an opportunity to make a significant change to the system and help end the years of crap that had taken over our city. We could change public housing, we could change the public school system, we could change crime, we could make New Orleans a shining example of resurrection from a tragedy. We were promised that a change was going to come. The slate had been wiped clean and we could rebuild ,revive ,and renew. Well, as you well know, that is far from the truth. We are struggling to even get a sense of "normalcy" in our lives. The "new normal" is not that normal, and it is not that new. Crime has risen higher than pre-K, the schools still suck(the state took them over and now wants to find someone to take them off of THEIR hands), and the public housing is not ready for occupancy. I know that people want to get back home, but we are not ready for the same old same old. As Councilman Thomas said after the storm, we can't have non-working people and welfare moms back until the city's infrastructure can handle them. Again, we are not ready. The system is way overtaxed now. I think that it is a sore point for many of us who decided to come back and rebuild because of the promise of change, and now we don't see that change and we are pissed off!!! ...........
I am not against public housing. But I feel that an able body should work for a living. I believe that people should earn a living wage. I don't think that people with a criminal record should be allowed to live in public housing. I do not think that the whole idea of raising buildings and putting in mixed income housing will work. Are you going to pay $200,000 for your new house that is built next to a section 8 home. I think not. I don't know what the solution is, if I did I would run for office and probably get elected. Well that's the end of my rant...fire away.....

[pokerchick66]

lol, that was pretty good, Mark.

[Mardigrasbaby35]

Nice response to your criticisms Blitzz...

And Rosetree, you put in very articulate terms how many of us who have returned to NOLa feel - some days i'm optomistic and think we still have a chance to try to start from a clean slate....but as the days go by, i become more and more fearful that we're falling back into the pre-K, "this is just how things have always been and we won't/can't change them" sort of mindset....I love this town and wouldn't live anywhere else, but sometimes these Post-K days can really get to you....which is why I love with a passion things like Mardi Gras, Jazz Fest - they keep reminding me how unique our city is and why i would NEVER leave it......

[ohio]

Thanks Mark.

[NOLA]

Mark, you said it better than I ever could have. There aren't any easy answers - if there were, we could have fixed a lot of the problems around here by now.

[NOLA]

Nice response to your criticisms Blitzz...

And Rosetree, you put in very articulate terms how many of us who have returned to NOLa feel - some days i'm optomistic and think we still have a chance to try to start from a clean slate....but as the days go by, i become more and more fearful that we're falling back into the pre-K, "this is just how things have always been and we won't/can't change them" sort of mindset....I love this town and wouldn't live anywhere else, but sometimes these Post-K days can really get to you....which is why I love with a passion things like Mardi Gras, Jazz Fest - they keep reminding me how unique our city is and why i would NEVER leave it......

Amen to that, MGB.

[jonnygospeltent]

It is weird these days that all sorts of talk of a sexual nature is no longer taboo and pornstars are on mainstream reality tv.shows, but any talk that can vaugely be considered racially sensitive is verbotten.I really feel the gap between races is widening and frank talk about differences is healthy.

[Azeater]

Ron Jeremy is trying to become a teacher and is stunned that there seems to be an outcry over his being able to do this. Imagine that. I suppose that what he has done for a living for the past twenty plus years should just be forgotten and we should let him into a classroom with our children.

[stlbarb]

Ron Jeremy is trying to become a teacher and is stunned that there seems to be an outcry over his being able to do this. Imagine that. I suppose that what he has done for a living for the past twenty plus years should just be forgotten and we should let him into a classroom with our children.

adult porn.

[Blitzzzzz]

Nice response to your criticisms Blitzz...

And Rosetree, you put in very articulate terms how many of us who have returned to NOLa feel - some days i'm optomistic and think we still have a chance to try to start from a clean slate....but as the days go by, i become more and more fearful that we're falling back into the pre-K, "this is just how things have always been and we won't/can't change them" sort of mindset....I love this town and wouldn't live anywhere else, but sometimes these Post-K days can really get to you....which is why I love with a passion things like Mardi Gras, Jazz Fest - they keep reminding me how unique our city is and why i would NEVER leave it......

Amen to that, MGB.

Thanks, MGB. You, Rosetree, Nola and, yes, Swampwoman and all of those who are trying to restore the New Orleans I love have my most fervent support at every opportunity. It's that very support that makes me passionate about this issue.
Often times, when reading this or that musician's story, I come across extended families living in one or another of the bricks. Musicians, Indians and others who have contributed to the flavor of New Orleans have called these projects home for many years. If we want to see that culture continue in face of widespread gentrification in places like Treme there is going to have to continue be a place for lower income folks to live.:cool:

[rosetree]

Blitzzz: I do not have a problem with that!!! Culture is something that should be cherished, and we have SOOOO much of it here. It is what makes New Orleans special. It is a question of finding the RIGHT housing, doing the right thing, and not falling back to squalor and poverty.

[Blitzzzzz]

Blitzzz: I do not have a problem with that!!! Culture is something that should be cherished, and we have SOOOO much of it here. It is what makes New Orleans special. It is a question of finding the RIGHT housing, doing the right thing, and not falling back to squalor and poverty.

Which brings us full circle to a consensus that New Orleans needs safe and decent housing for it's low income citizens and that it already has, at it's disposal, sturdy, readily repairable housing that can be returned to service quicker and for much less than the cost of replacing only a fraction of the units that already exist. What seems to be missing is an effort on HANO's part to empower the decent residents with the tools to eliminate the crime and drugs that have plagued them. Every citizen deserves those things and by helping achieve safer public housing it will be of benefit to the whole New Orleans community. :cool:

[Blitzzzzz]

Well, no surprise that the Bush administration sides with HANO and those who would rather take the long route to finding housing for some of the displaced low income citizens in New Orleans by tearing down repairable public housing units and building new.
The Times-Pic story is here: http://tinyurl.com/2vkb5p
While the federal lawsuit continues, the HUD decision may render its outcome moot.