How young is too young to play in bars?

[duende]

I was just about to comment on the "too pretty" thread by saying that we'll know when the Chinese have eroded to the American standard when there are professional stage-moms & -dads, then I see this story - which touches a nerve for me on so many levels.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080812/ap_on_en_mu/blues_kid

Every city has at least one - a child prodigy who has a passable musical vocabulary and is usually possessed of blazing technique, who's sitting-in with the house band in a place that I wouldn't take my wife to, let alone a child. My town has at least 2 of these lads - more if you count the kids who did the club circuit, then grew up and suddenly found themselves as young adults and accountable only to themselves (insert sound of screeching career brakes here). I don't know if it's cute, or pathetic, to expose a kid to the bar lifestyle at a very early age, but at least the 21-and-over only laws apply to most true dive bars here.

I wonder at times how much damage was done by my folks taking me to the Elk's lodge and bowling alley when I was a young'un since I am still strangely drawn to bee-hive hairdo's and high-ball glasses to this day. ;)

[Frosty]

I saw this story and think he should be booked into bars when he's old enough to have seasoned his playing from years of learning at the feet of his elders. Too many talented people are scuttled aside while we search for the next big thing. I like the New Orleans method, bring 'em up on stage to learn but don't hand them the stage until they've paid their dues.

[McGregor]

This thread reminds of Kermit last year at Satchmo having to push that little girl off stage that he let sing a song with his band. LOL

It was funny, he gave her one tune and she wanted more and he was having none of it.

[swag]

Lots to consider here.

On the legal side, duende discusses a requirement to be 21 to play in bars, but what the article discusses is child labor laws that apply only to much younger kids and would prevent them playing anywhere. Though most states have exceptions for performers, I think, most obviously with all the child actors out there who perform all the time.

Completely separate from the legal considerations are the artistic ones that seem to concern duende & frosty. Yes, there are lots of whiz kids & SRV wannabes out there who can play a lot of notes quickly, but who may not have or may never develop the true artistic creativity needed for success once the novelty of seeing the cute kid play has worn off.

My main thought is I'd hate to see hard and fast restrictions based just on age. As an example, I think Amanda Shaw was 10 when she cut her first CD, and she was maybe 12 the first time she wowed me in the Kids Tent. She was playing RnB by the time she was 15 or so, and though that's an all-ages venue, it essentially really is just a bar. Now she's 18 and has both the chops and the creativity to be playing fantastic music for decades. I don't know if she could have developed to the point she's at musically, had she not been allowed to perform for the public all thru her pre-teen and teen years.

[funkkjunkie]

Ahhh, the voice of reason. :)

[Mexi]

I like the New Orleans method, bring 'em up on stage to learn but don't hand them the stage until they've paid their dues.

I agree :) I don't have a problem with child performers as long as the content or nature of thier performance is age appropriate.

This thread brings to mind how Shania Twain got her start:
"Twain began to earn money by singing in local clubs and bars from a very young age to support her family. She was singing in bars at the age of just eight to try to make ends meet, often earning twenty dollars between midnight and two in the morning when the bar had closed but the people remained. Although she has expressed a dislike for singing in such a smoky atmosphere at such a young age, Shania believes that this was her performing arts school on the road to becoming a successful singer"

[Amy Winette]

And supporting her siblings . . . I think her parents died when she was very young, correct?

[duende]

Yes, there are lots of whiz kids & SRV wannabes out there who can play a lot of notes quickly, but who may not have or may never develop the true artistic creativity needed for success once the novelty of seeing the cute kid play has worn off.

My main thought is I'd hate to see hard and fast restrictions based just on age. As an example, I think Amanda Shaw was 10 when she cut her first CD, and she was maybe 12 the first time she wowed me in the Kids Tent. She was playing RnB by the time she was 15 or so, and though that's an all-ages venue, it essentially really is just a bar. Now she's 18 and has both the chops and the creativity to be playing fantastic music for decades. I don't know if she could have developed to the point she's at musically, had she not been allowed to perform for the public all thru her pre-teen and teen years.

I hear ya, Swag, and it's no surprise to we thread-types, but the greater New Orleans area (I'm extending this to cajun country) is one of the few places where it's not just a time-honored tradition to begin your musical journey at the feet of your elders, it's expected. And you'd better get your schooling from those masters while they're around to teach you, 'cause they may not be there when you're grown.

I guess my own bar-owner/denizen/fly bias slipped out there for a minute... now, where's happy hour, again? :)

[festbabe]

Yes, mixed thoughts on this.

I don't think anyone should be suppressed from playing due to age (i.e., you're never too young to play). However, I do agree that there is an age where one is too young to play in a bar. My brother was playing in bars at 17, 18 or so. I think that's appropriate (not legal, but ok to me). Ten year olds don't belong in a bar - period.

And child labor laws - I just don't see the relevance here. Child labor laws are to prevent putting kids to "work" when and where they aren't able to speak up for themselves (so you don't take advantage of them, or put them in a dangerous situation where they don't recognize it, etc.). A young kid with a guitar - that's a passion, not a job.

[bluesgirl]

I can only go by what I've seen, and I really wouldn't want to expose anyone under about 14 to the shenanigans that go on in some of our local venues. I have seen fathers bring their teen aged kids out for open mic night early during the week which is cool, and we also have a local bar/restaurant that has what it calls "Fam Jam" on Sunday's where parents are encouraged to bring their kids along for the jam.

AFAIK right now (I'm not a parent, but I am an aunt), I wouldn't take my kid to a bar that was not also a restaurant. I especially wouldn't take the child there after about 9PM. If a festival or fair, firehouse, community event, etc., I'm all for having the young kids play.

[sophisticated sissy]

IMO, they should be at least 16. That means they'd have a driver's license and they could make sure poor ol' mom or pop gets home safely without a D.U.I.:D

[Frosty]

And child labor laws - I just don't see the relevance here. Child labor laws are to prevent putting kids to "work" when and where they aren't able to speak up for themselves (so you don't take advantage of them, or put them in a dangerous situation where they don't recognize it, etc.). A young kid with a guitar - that's a passion, not a job.

We had a neighboring community fined by the Federal government for violating child labor laws because they had 10 to 12 year old kids umpire t-ball games. Just a quick note, the laws exempt farm labor so the kids are more than welcome to pick cotton under the hot sun but just don't umpire a t-ball game.

[rosetree]

I'm surprised that no one mentioned this young'n.....

http://www.connick.com/hcjr/images/misc/youngharry-booker.jpg

[duende]

I'm surprised that no one mentioned this young'n.....

I was all set to go down the list, RT! I could think of the Nevilles' kids, Geno Delafose (heck, ALL cajun/zydeco players!), Dr. John, and Harry... then I remembered that Harry Connick, Sr. was the sittin D.A. in the parish while Harry was going to the clubs with his father to sit in with his heroes - that'd keep Booker on his best behavior and the patrons on a short leash! ;)