Is New Orleans music world music for fellow americans?

[ramon]

and, New Orleans an exotic tourist resort, somewhat the most northern city in the caribbean?

First of all - I love the music of New Orleans, whether it be old 50ths are´n´be or contemporary funk.

My point of view is that New Orleans artists, whether it be Wild Magnolias or Christian Scott, always seems to be put in the New Orleans box. And, that seems to make it a lot harder to succeed in having a major breakthrough in the US. I have not studied the numbers, but since the days of Fats Domino, which N.O. artist can be said to have had a major breakthrough? (Neville Brothers/Aaron Neville got some fame, but in my opinion they never reached stardom).

A lot of US artists have recorded in N.O., saying, "I wanted to make my New Orleans album". That is fine, but it seems that N.O. artists therefore start from a position of being considered world music when they try to enter the market.

So, what to do in order to break through? Move to New York and try to hide their N.O. background?

Just some thoughts.....

[Staxsun]

I'm not sure that most N.O. artists want to give up their artistic freedom to become "stars". A very interesting read is this month's Offbeat article on Amanda Shaw. It appears she decided to give up money and fame in order to make the kind of music she wanted. Older acts seldom become mainstream stars. It is amazing the success that Aaron Neville and the Neville Brothers had considering that. Harry Connick Jr. probably would be an example of someone who actually became well known. I don't consider them world music artists any more than I do the lesser known acts in my hometown. The association with labels such as Putamayo has made others think so, though.

[ramon]

I havent read that article but will do so. I agree that older acts seldom make it. I think the Nevilles managed to have some kind of breakthrough in Europe because they were really not much known until Yellow Moon came. They represented something new, and exotic. Still they write about whichcraft, voodoo and all that stuff when it comes to the nevilles.

But, look at young Troy Andrews. The man in 99% music and artistry, but my bet is that he will never make it big time in the US (he already is in N.O.). He will be stuck with that N.O. label, making great music of course.

[jhjpotter]

Juvenile and Lil Wayne wut wut!! haha. I would say Galactic is making it pretty big. They sell out shows all over the US these days.

[Staxsun]

Juvenile and Lil Wayne wut wut!! haha. I would say Galactic is making it pretty big. They sell out shows all over the US these days.

Lots of New Orleans acts sell out venues, BUT not arenas and stadiums. Chart mainstream success is what I think he's talking about.

[Blitzzzzz]

Lots of New Orleans acts sell out venues, BUT not arenas and stadiums. Chart mainstream success is what I think he's talking about.

Pop Commercial success is such a cookie cutter proposition these days that it is pretty much unlikely that music as idiosyncratic as New Orleans's would achieve any kind of chart breakthrough today.
Juvenile and Lil' Wayne would be the closest parrallel to the golden age of Fats and the rest. Back then, New Orleans music was a highly spiced, regional version of a sound that was happening all over the country as Swing and Big Band morphed into Jump Blues and from there to R&B or Rock n' Roll depending on what color you were.

Of course, there were no arenas or stadiums in those days, so the yardstick was a bit more equal with ballrooms and theaters being available to groups of both races:cool:

[Jay Fest]

But, look at young Troy Andrews. The man in 99% music and artistry, but my bet is that he will never make it big time in the US (he already is in N.O.). He will be stuck with that N.O. label, making great music of course.

Funny, you should mention him. I got the impression last year that he was trying to break it big by adding rap and other stuff to his music. I personally wasn't too impressed with the transformation, but of course, I'm not the target audience.

[20-20]

I think that this is a very interesting thread and I hope that there will be a response from the knowledgeable threadhead community.I happen to believe that their are multiple causes.I happen to like Texas alt-type music.Most of it is Austin centered in order to have a wider, read more profitable exposure.The national exposure however, is virtually non-existent.The same condition exists with Cajun flavored music.One either has to go to Lafayette on a regular basis or you will have no idea what-so-ever on who is up and coming, what direction the music is going in and so on.Say what you will about the ease of access to music in the new "down-loading" era, if folks don't ever hear the variety of idioms that exist, then the chances of any format or individual talent becoming widely known is almost impossible.Most folks that I know hardly ever listen to commercial radio for music anymore, and the ones that do are not the ones that have tastes that I respect."Nashville", "Tin-Pan-Alley", ect have been targets of derision for as long as I can remember, and legitimately so.Now with "clear channel", about four big time concert promotion outfits (our boy Quint is part of this nowadays), and the lack of a demanding and educated listening community, well, we are where we are.

[jhjpotter]

Lots of New Orleans acts sell out venues, BUT not arenas and stadiums. Chart mainstream success is what I think he's talking about.you mean the 400 capacity mangy moose in jackson hole that i waited to long to get tickets to for tonights show and am now kicking myself over and over again for doesn't count???

[chicagomike]

Interesting discussion. I still think Troy has a chance to break out. I just love seeing him play and the energy he brings with him. He is still a kid. Its interesting how in Chicago I was first exposed to people like the Neville's the Radiators, Anders Osbourne, subdudes, Bluerunners and Better then Ezra from our local radio station WXRT. They have a pretty good rotation but they have been a corporate radio station for quite some time. The station still plays quite a bit of New Orleans music like Dr. John, Irma Thomas just to name a few and on a fairly regular basis. I believe for a major market station with high 25-54 demographic ratings it is a rarity. I think it boils down to the right place/right time scenario. There are a lot of big name crappy "artists" that fill arenas. Maybe someday New Orleans will be "blessed" with a mainstream big name.... Then again, that wouldnt be much fun. New Orleans music for the most part appeals to a very discriminating musical ear. A little advanced for mainstream America. ;)

[Dixiegal]

Funny, you should mention him. I got the impression last year that he was trying to break it big by adding rap and other stuff to his music. I personally wasn't too impressed with the transformation, but of course, I'm not the target audience.


Actually, here's an interesting sidenote about that. My mother is a jazz fanatic who goes to festivals all over the country, and caught Troy Andrews at a jazz festival in Arizona - of course she was very impressed and so was everyone else there (she sent me an email about it). Then, she came here to jazz fest and saw him in the jazz tent playing with Orleans Avenue, which is anything but jazz. She's an older, retired lady, but after the show she marched up to him and said "Young man, the rock world doesn't need you, but the jazz world does"!

[Dixiegal]

But we do have 2 trumpet players that have achieved major success in the jazz world - Terrance Blanchard and Nicholas Payton. It's not "arena rock", but I believe they're pretty well known nationally with jazz people.

[Blitzzzzz]

But we do have 2 trumpet players that have achieved major success in the jazz world - Terrance Blanchard and Nicholas Payton. It's not "arena rock", but I believe they're pretty well known nationally with jazz people.

Ah, make that 3 trumpet players that have achieved major success in the Jazz world. This fellow named Marsalis can blow pretty strong.:cool:

[breambob]

Ah, make that 3 trumpet players that have achieved major success in the Jazz world. This fellow named Marsalis can blow pretty strong.:cool:

I think a trumpet player named Armstrong did pretty good too. But not until he left New Orleans. Gotta leave to make it big...

[Dixiegal]

Ah, make that 3 trumpet players that have achieved major success in the Jazz world. This fellow named Marsalis can blow pretty strong.:cool:

woops - yes you're right - how could I have forgotten ALL of them?:eek:

[papafrog]

Interesting discussion. I still think Troy has a chance to break out. I just love seeing him play and the energy he brings with him. He is still a kid. Its interesting how in Chicago I was first exposed to people like the Neville's the Radiators, Anders Osbourne, subdudes, Bluerunners and Better then Ezra from our local radio station WXRT. They have a pretty good rotation but they have been a corporate radio station for quite some time. The station still plays quite a bit of New Orleans music like Dr. John, Irma Thomas just to name a few and on a fairly regular basis. I believe for a major market station with high 25-54 demographic ratings it is a rarity. I think it boils down to the right place/right time scenario. There are a lot of big name crappy "artists" that fill arenas. Maybe someday New Orleans will be "blessed" with a mainstream big name.... Then again, that wouldnt be much fun. New Orleans music for the most part appeals to a very discriminating musical ear. A little advanced for mainstream America. ;)

Dr. John
Harry Connick Jr.
and altho neither live here full time...they still qualify as bona fide
new orleans artists.....Dr. John hung out at Backstreet on mardi gras day
this year....yet both are international stars.......and there are big festivals
in europe where new orleans artists perform in the summer....
then theres Allan Toussaint.....
Wynton Marsalis
Branford Marsalis...
etc....etc..

[rosetree]

Is Kentwood close enough to be considered NOLA? If so, there's a very troubled girl from here who did pretty well for a while before she snapped....

[papafrog]

Actually, here's an interesting sidenote about that. My mother is a jazz fanatic who goes to festivals all over the country, and caught Troy Andrews at a jazz festival in Arizona - of course she was very impressed and so was everyone else there (she sent me an email about it). Then, she came here to jazz fest and saw him in the jazz tent playing with Orleans Avenue, which is anything but jazz. She's an older, retired lady, but after the show she marched up to him and said "Young man, the rock world doesn't need you, but the jazz world does"!

interesting....
Troy can play well in both genres...ive seen him recently and his band
has gotten very tight....
i believe also Lenny Kravitz is from here, or lived here for quite awhile...

[swag]

Who was the last brass player - trumpet, trombone, tuba, sousaphone - to achieve rock stardom?

Bonerama has proven that horns can rock out, but I don't know if the mainstream rock audience is ready...

[rosetree]

Who was the last brass player - trumpet, trombone, tuba, sousaphone - to achieve rock stardom?

Bonerama has proven that horns can rock out, but I don't know if the mainstream rock audience is ready...

Do you want individuals? In rock, no one stands out. Maybe Clarence Clemmons. But as groups (which horns usually are in) you have Chicago; Blood Sweat and Tears; Earth, Wind and Fire---all not from NO
Eddie Money and David Bowie were both sax players...

[papafrog]

i think Clint Maedgen has star possibilities....
Mute Math is from new orleans...

[swag]

Do you want individuals? In rock, no one stands out. Maybe Clarence Clemmons. But as groups (which horns usually are in) you have Chicago; Blood Sweat and Tears; Earth, Wind and Fire---all not from NO
Eddie Money and David Bowie were both sax players...

Kind of my point. In rock, horn players are sidemen or parts of ensembles. Dunno why, maybe because it's hard to sing while playing the trumpet? No matter how talented Shorty may be, no matter how much of his potential he fulfills, I can't see him really becoming a rock star saddled with his choice of instrument.

Eddie Money and David Bowie may play saxes, but that's not the instrument that made them stars. I'm a huge Clarence Clemmons fan, but does more than 5% of America know his name?

And I notice that all three names listed are sax players. It may be the most rock-friendly sounding horn. But technically, the sax isn't a brass instrument. It's a wind. Something to do with the reed, I think?

[Dixiegal]

Is Kentwood close enough to be considered NOLA? If so, there's a very troubled girl from here who did pretty well for a while before she snapped....

Very good point. I forgot about her because, well, did she really do music?;)

[Dixiegal]

interesting....
Troy can play well in both genres...ive seen him recently and his band
has gotten very tight....
i believe also Lenny Kravitz is from here, or lived here for quite awhile...

I'd rather hear him play jazz, but that's me - I couldn't get into Orleans Avenue (and that's me too - prolly a gen X kinda gap thing).

[Blitzzzzz]

.....And I notice that all three names listed are sax players. It may be the most rock-friendly sounding horn. But technically, the sax isn't a brass instrument. It's a wind. Something to do with the reed, I think?

Meanwhile, here's is adopted homeboy Jimmy Buffet's take on the subject from the very early "Living and Dying in 3/4 Time.":cool:

I cut my teeth on gumbo rock
Benny Spellman and Doctor John
Sweet Irma Thomas and Frogman Henry
Use to boogie woogie all night long
Though I love rock and roll the acoustic guitar
was the only way I had of becoming a star
I doing rather nice and traveling around
But they won't play my record in my ol' hometown

If I had saxophones
Big baritone, cleanin' up the muddy breaks
If I had Saxophones
I could get some recognition from
that Mobile Alabama DJ

Livin' by the ocean sometimes I get the notion
To take my Jane to Alabam
We hang out in a funky little bar
They call it the Shipwreck lounge
Well, we get kinda drunk and we play rock and roll
Grabbin' everybody right down in their soul
When we get to cookin' something's still wrong
There's still something missing from them good old songs

If we had saxophones
Big baritone, cleaning up the muddy breaks
If we had saxophones
I could make that joint shimmy like a big
California earthquake

If we had saxophone
Big baritones, cleaning up the muddy breaks
If we had saxophone
I could get some recognition from
that Mobile Alabama DJ

[ramon]

But we do have 2 trumpet players that have achieved major success in the jazz world - Terrance Blanchard and Nicholas Payton. It's not "arena rock", but I believe they're pretty well known nationally with jazz people.

Yes, we have both Terrance Blanchard and Nicholas Payton, and of cource Wynton Marsalis. Blanchard and Marsalis is recognized as jazz artists regardless of where they come from, as seems to be the situation for other big names as Roy Hargrove et.c I think Payton, Irvin Mayfield and maybe Christian Scott is more linked to N.O. Just like Arturo Sandovals sound is linked to Cuba.

When it comes to pianists, I cant think of a singular jazz pianist from New Orleans that has made it nationwide. That is a bit strange, given the the importance of piano in N.O. music.

Another thing that seems to dominate is that N.O. artists often has made it outside Louisiana with the help from established artists like Rolling Stones. And Allen Toussiant got a hand from Elvis Costello. Again, white artists going to New Orleans to have fun, which is really OK.

[Blitzzzzz]

..... And Allen Toussiant got a hand from Elvis Costello...

Elvis Costello was lucky to be able to share the same stage with Allen Toussaint, and I wouldn't be surprised if Allen makes more $$$$, given his royalties.:cool:

[ramon]

Indeed was Elvis Costello lucky to share the stage with Allan Toussaint. I consider Allen Toussaint a much greater artist than Elvis Costello, just as I consider the Nevilles/Meters sound much richer and with more musicianship, than Stones.

But, correct me if I am wrong, I think River in Reverse and the tour were made possible because of Elvis Costello and his position in the music market, not the opposite way. I really hope Allen makes a lot of $$$$$.

[Moon]

IFC is showing an excellent film that deals with the music industry. Radio is at the heart of the problem. The synopsis:

Never have so few companies controlled so much of the music played on the radio and for sale at retail stores. At the same time, there are more bands and more ways to discover their music than ever. Music seems to have split in two - the homogenous corporate product that is spoonfed to consumers and the diverse independent music that finds devoted fans online and at clubs across the country.

Before The Music Dies tells the story of American music at this precarious moment. Filmmakers Andrew Shapter and Joel Rasmussen traveled the country, hoping to understand why mainstream music seems so packaged and repetitive, and whether corporations really had the power to silence musical innovation.

Check your local listings for day and times.

[rosetree]

Kind of my point. In rock, horn players are sidemen or parts of ensembles. Dunno why, maybe because it's hard to sing while playing the trumpet? No matter how talented Shorty may be, no matter how much of his potential he fulfills, I can't see him really becoming a rock star saddled with his choice of instrument.

Eddie Money and David Bowie may play saxes, but that's not the instrument that made them stars. I'm a huge Clarence Clemmons fan, but does more than 5% of America know his name?

And I notice that all three names listed are sax players. It may be the most rock-friendly sounding horn. But technically, the sax isn't a brass instrument. It's a wind. Something to do with the reed, I think?

I guess we have to go all the way back to Jr. Walker!:eek:

[RitaZero]

I think a trumpet player named Armstrong did pretty good too. But not until he left New Orleans. Gotta leave to make it big...
And then there's Kermit Ruffins who got a whole Putumayo CD with his music and in his name. Most of their releases are compilations of various artists, so that's got to be some measure of achievement.

I find this quote from Jambase an interesting thing to say in a bio; "In recent years, Ruffins and his band have been able to take their act out on the road on summer weekends, playing at festivals in Florida, California, Colorado, New York City and Cape May, N.J. At these events, they've been able to sell more compact discs than they would at home in New Orleans."

It's just a guess, but he seems happy playing in NOLA for the most part to me.

He's not mainstream, but I prefer seeing him at Vaughn's or the fairgrounds anyway :) The price of my plane fare to JazzFest (almost double this year compared to the last 8!) is worth it just to see Kermit....

[Frosty]

Who was the last brass player - trumpet, trombone, tuba, sousaphone - to achieve rock stardom?

Bonerama has proven that horns can rock out, but I don't know if the mainstream rock audience is ready...

Chuck Mangione. 30 years ago playing a very bland syrupy instrumental.

[Frosty]

Interesting discussion. I still think Troy has a chance to break out. I just love seeing him play and the energy he brings with him. He is still a kid. Its interesting how in Chicago I was first exposed to people like the Neville's the Radiators, Anders Osbourne, subdudes, Bluerunners and Better then Ezra from our local radio station WXRT. They have a pretty good rotation but they have been a corporate radio station for quite some time. The station still plays quite a bit of New Orleans music like Dr. John, Irma Thomas just to name a few and on a fairly regular basis. I believe for a major market station with high 25-54 demographic ratings it is a rarity. I think it boils down to the right place/right time scenario. There are a lot of big name crappy "artists" that fill arenas. Maybe someday New Orleans will be "blessed" with a mainstream big name.... Then again, that wouldnt be much fun. New Orleans music for the most part appeals to a very discriminating musical ear. A little advanced for mainstream America. ;)

XRT has been a great proponent of New Orleans music as well as the Blues. But, this is due to the retention of station management from the good ole days plus announcers like Terri Hemmert, Tom Marker, and Marty Lennertz. Things are quickly changing there. The first shot was when they let Johnny Mars go. He was only the guy that started playing these quirky bands that mainstream radio wouldn't touch. Groups like REM and U2. Well, these changes are about to accelerate. Don't be surprised if the next two years changes XRT for good.



Some static expected as 'XRT leaves home
Phil Rosenthal

Media

February 8, 2008

Just as vinyl and cassettes gave way to CDs and MP3 downloads, CBS Radio's WXRT-FM 93.1 is moving into the 21st Century. Whether this is truly an advance is in the ear of the listener.

Staffers at the famously eclectic Chicago adult-rock outlet were told Thursday that they soon will be leaving their squat, one-story Northwest Side clubhouse at Belmont and Cicero Avenues for more modern downtown accommodations at NBC Tower.

WXRT's sales department is set to move in a few weeks, with the on-air staff supposed to follow in three to four months after changes are made to digitally upgrade the facilities the station will share with all-sports WSCR-AM 670, sources said.

This news comes as a nationwide CBS Radio shake-up claimed Michael Damsky, a 24-year veteran of the station who had been WXRT's vice president and general manager since 2004. His duties will be assumed by Paul Agase, who also oversees WSCR. The Score and 'XRT previously shared space at 4949 W. Belmont for nearly a decade before WSCR moved downtown in 2001.

"It's a troubling day at the radio station," said Richard Milne, a weekend and fill-in air personality on the station since 1986, refusing to elaborate.

Some WXRT employees said they have heard talk of moves before, only to have plans fall through. Others concede they might just be in denial.

"I'll believe it when we start moving," said Marty Lennartz, who gave up a full-time non-radio job to intern at WXRT in 1981 and hosts overnights and weekend afternoons. "I can't even imagine it. I haven't processed it yet. ... This is too soon to even talk about it for me."

Other personnel moves locally include Rod Zimmerman, senior vice president and market manager for CBS Radio Chicago, assuming Peter Bowen's general manager duties for WJMK-FM 104.3 and WBBM-FM 96.3, in addition to WBBM-AM 780, which Zimmerman already managed.

Bowen will serve as director of sales for the seven-station Chicago cluster. Gabe Tartaglia, who had been in that post, will be general sales manager of WUSN-FM 99.5 and WCFR-FM 105.9.

"With these actions, we continue to build on our strategy of deploying our assets to best grow our ratings and monetize the results," a statement from CBS Radio said, referring to the streamlining of its corporate management staff.

Such corporate-speak is a far cry from the early days at WXRT, which switched from foreign language to a veritable buffet of rock, blues, folk, country, soul and nearly everything else in 1972.

Profits for a long time were relatively low for radio, but the marching orders from then-owner Daniel Lee when Norm Winer was hired as program director in 1979 were: "We don't need to be No. 1. Just be the best rock station in Chicago."

Lee sold the station to Westinghouse in the mid-1990s, and the place has been under corporate oversight and pressure for margins ever since. In that sense, it's amazing WXRT has remained even a little like it once was and in its relatively modest bunker.

It's not known what parent CBS Corp. intends to do with the real estate. Perhaps they should turn the old WXRT facility into some kind of broadcast museum, the way things used to be.

"It's not downtown. It's in a neighborhood," Lennartz said. "It kept us from being part of the real radio world."

As the North Mississippi Allstars sing on their song No Mo, "America is bland" .

[Moon]

If you're a jazz musician looking for fortune and fame, you're most likely headed for disappointment. Peer recognition and enough gigs to keep you from giving music lessons is about as successful as it gets. Jazz musicians, like their counterparts in bluegrass and other marginal genres, have chosen this path out of a love for the music.

As for the original question, many CD stores that don't have a New Orleans section will file cajun, zydeco, and MG Indians in their World Music category. Even my i-tunes library classifies my Steve Riley stuff as world music

[ohio]

Who was the last brass player - trumpet, trombone, tuba, sousaphone - to achieve rock stardom?

Bonerama has proven that horns can rock out, but I don't know if the mainstream rock audience is ready...Cynthia from Sly's band.

Tower of Power was all over rock radio when I was a youngster, but there was no one player know above the others...

[ramon]

Scenario 1:Two musicians goes to a band audition i N.Y. This band is playing contemporary r&b. One of the musicians hails from Montgomery, Alabama, and the other one from New Orleans. Will they be considered regardless of their background, or will the N.O. guy be considered differently.

Scanario 2: Two bands send their demos to a huge festival with a broad musicial profile. The festival has already hired PBS and Funky Meters as well as Troy Andrews, playing on the same scene the same nite. These two bands both informs that they play rock, no more, no less. One of the bands hails from Montgomery, Alabama, the other one from New Orleans. Will the festival arranger consider the bands regardless of where they come from, or will the New Orleans band get a thumbs down (we already have filled up the mardi gras party event)?

[Dixiegal]

And then there's Kermit Ruffins who got a whole Putumayo CD with his music and in his name. Most of their releases are compilations of various artists, so that's got to be some measure of achievement.

I find this quote from Jambase an interesting thing to say in a bio; "In recent years, Ruffins and his band have been able to take their act out on the road on summer weekends, playing at festivals in Florida, California, Colorado, New York City and Cape May, N.J. At these events, they've been able to sell more compact discs than they would at home in New Orleans."

It's just a guess, but he seems happy playing in NOLA for the most part to me.

He's not mainstream, but I prefer seeing him at Vaughn's or the fairgrounds anyway :) The price of my plane fare to JazzFest (almost double this year compared to the last 8!) is worth it just to see Kermit....

I think you're right about that - an ex-WWOZ dj said that Kermit used to tell him how glad he was not to have to tour - he could make a perfectly good living right here at home.

[McGregor]

Scenario 1:Two musicians goes to a band audition i N.Y. This band is playing contemporary r&b. One of the musicians hails from Montgomery, Alabama, and the other one from New Orleans. Will they be considered regardless of their background, or will the N.O. guy be considered differently.

Scanario 2: Two bands send their demos to a huge festival with a broad musicial profile. The festival has already hired PBS and Funky Meters as well as Troy Andrews, playing on the same scene the same nite. These two bands both informs that they play rock, no more, no less. One of the bands hails from Montgomery, Alabama, the other one from New Orleans. Will the festival arranger consider the bands regardless of where they come from, or will the New Orleans band get a thumbs down (we already have filled up the mardi gras party event)?

I definitely do not think that being from NO is held against musicians. I think that's off base somewhat. If you have any music knowledge at all, you know being from New Orleans is a positive.

Dirty Dozen, PBS, Dumpstaphunk, Rebirth etc play in Mobile/Birmingham a good bit in Alabama for example.

[ramon]

I definitely do not think that being from NO is held against musicians. I think that's off base somewhat. If you have any music knowledge at all, you know being from New Orleans is a positive.

Dirty Dozen, PBS, Dumpstaphunk, Rebirth etc play in Mobile/Birmingham a good bit in Alabama for example.

Dont get me wrong here - I don´t think that being from N.O. is held against N.O. musicians as such. Rather the opposite way.

The question is, and that was the reason for starting this thread, is the music of New Orleans put in some kind of ethnical box together with afrocuban/caribbean/Island music buy the leading forces in the music market? And, will that make it difficult for the bands to have a commercial breakthrough? I am not talking about bands that has a clear N.O. profile (funk bands like PBS, NOSC, maybe not Dumpstaphunk, they seem to try to lift their profile out of the N.O. brand). I am talking about N.O. artists that play music without the N.O. wibe.

[glinda]

XRT has been a great proponent of New Orleans music as well as the Blues. But, this is due to the retention of station management from the good ole days plus announcers like Terri Hemmert, Tom Marker, and Marty Lennertz. Things are quickly changing there. The first shot was when they let Johnny Mars go. He was only the guy that started playing these quirky bands that mainstream radio wouldn't touch. Groups like REM and U2. Well, these changes are about to accelerate. Don't be surprised if the next two years changes XRT for good.


Saw that article, frosty, and I'm so worried about that. WXRT brings nawlins music to the attention of so many in Chicago. And their support of CHicago Blues ia a lifeline for the blues artisits. Their ad campaign, Chicago without XRT.... well, maybe their management does get that its their uniquenesss that keeps them alive.... I hope...

[ncfunk]

I think much of New Orleans music is too rhythmically complex and harmonically challenging for mainstream success. It seems that most 'pop' music fans start to get uncomfortable anytime an artist strays from the familiar major and minor triads, 4/4 time signatures (with the pop/rock emphasis on the 1 and the 3, as opposed to the funky 2 and 4) or anytime a song goes 30 seconds without a chorus. Musicianship is ignored (sometimes derided) in favor of accessibility, familiarity and that sweet, sweet pop hook.

Beyond that, most mainstream music has adopted the standard instrumentation of guitar, bass and drums, making music heavy with horns, keys, etc. seem more of a novelty to many people. I know people who instantly categorize music as 'jazz' (as if that were a bad word) anytime they hear a B3. Of course, everybody is entitled to their opinion, but I hate to see incredibly talented people who have worked long and hard to perfect their artform struggle to make a living when cookie-cutter corporate "artists" can sell millions of records by sanitizing and homoginizing all the life and uniqueness out of music.

I read something once that summed up my feelings on the matter...I think it was a review of an Alanis Morisette album. The quote I remember referred to the album as "a dozen identical pieces of tripe, cowritten by Big Bird, Elmo and the letter 'H'". A bit harsh, but when I compare the music I hear on top 40 radio to the music I hear in New Orleans, it certainly rings true.

</rant>

[Jordan]

Dont get me wrong here - I don´t think that being from N.O. is held against N.O. musicians as such. Rather the opposite way.

The question is, and that was the reason for starting this thread, is the music of New Orleans put in some kind of ethnical box together with afrocuban/caribbean/Island music buy the leading forces in the music market? And, will that make it difficult for the bands to have a commercial breakthrough? I am not talking about bands that has a clear N.O. profile (funk bands like PBS, NOSC, maybe not Dumpstaphunk, they seem to try to lift their profile out of the N.O. brand). I am talking about N.O. artists that play music without the N.O. wibe.

Unfortunately, many consumers wont support music without vocals. That is at least one reason that New Orleans acts from Galactic to the Meters have never broken through. People are looking for that American Idol sound. Let's face it, I love the Meters, but I'd be suprised if any Meters lovers love them for for their vocals.

There are a million examples -- Nora Jones and Joss Stone are two that jump out at me. The opposite examples are very rare and take a long time to develop (see Carlos Santana -- glad he made it, but I have no idea how?).

It's not the whole answer, but it is at least part of it.

[ramon]

The vocals are very important, but not enough. Joss Stones way into the market was a young, white, british girl, with a voice similar to a colored soul queen from the south. In some ways I think her key to the market was similar to that of Harry Connick jr. Of course, he is a helluwa musician too, but I think he succeeded bacause he was a young, white singing jazz sensation from the colored city of New Orleans.

[ibjamn]

The vocals are very important, but not enough. Joss Stones way into the market was a young, white, british girl, with a voice similar to a colored soul queen from the south. In some ways I think her key to the market was similar to that of Harry Connick jr. Of course, he is a helluwa musician too, but I think he succeeded bacause he was a young, white singing jazz sensation from the colored city of New Orleans.


Colored? Which one?

[sophisticated sissy]

Ramon, what country did you say you hail from?

I realize that there are differences in idiom and vernacular among languages around the world, however, I must gently point out that the term "colored", as used in your post above, has not been in common usage in the U.S.A. for about 45 or 50 years.

The sole exception would be The N.A.A.C.P, or The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, which is a civil rights group in the U.S.

As for your original question as I understand it: Do Americans think of New Orleans music as "World Music"? The short answer is no. World Music, or World Beat, is a separate genre.

New Orleans music is made by people of all colors, genders, ages, and backgrounds.

[Orleansnj]

All the colors in the spectrum.........I hope.

Even though the term makes my skin crawl - I'm gonna reserve judgement since he's from across the pond.

nice post sissy...well said.

[ramon]

I am sorry if I offended someone with using the term "colored". I used the term "colored" to underline that much of the music of N.O., the jazz, the second line, was created by afroamericans, fully aware of that the term is not used anymore. It is my view that the color of the skin still is used to discriminate, which is very sad. The same can be said by the way the U.S. government has acted before, during, and after Katrina. I wanted to emphazise this part by using this old term, but can see that this could be misjudged. Again, I apologize that.

[Zbonnie]

Actually, here's an interesting sidenote about that. My mother is a jazz fanatic who goes to festivals all over the country, and caught Troy Andrews at a jazz festival in Arizona - of course she was very impressed and so was everyone else there (she sent me an email about it). Then, she came here to jazz fest and saw him in the jazz tent playing with Orleans Avenue, which is anything but jazz. She's an older, retired lady, but after the show she marched up to him and said "Young man, the rock world doesn't need you, but the jazz world does"!Good for Mom!!

[Jordan]

I am sorry if I offended someone with using the term "colored". I used the term "colored" to underline that much of the music of N.O., the jazz, the second line, was created by afroamericans, fully aware of that the term is not used anymore. It is my view that the color of the skin still is used to discriminate, which is very sad. The same can be said by the way the U.S. government has acted before, during, and after Katrina. I wanted to emphazise this part by using this old term, but can see that this could be misjudged. Again, I apologize that.

I got your original intent and am glad that you defended your reference.

[Frosty]

Excellent thread.


As far as world music, I always get a kick out of that. What is Mozart? Certainly not American. But Tito Puente was.

[20-20]

A pox on hypersensitivity.Until all parties at the table can move beyond perceptions of slights where none is intended than it makes it impossible to address issues of substance.Now let me put my soapbox back upon the shelf. Sorry.

[Frosty]

A pox on hypersensitivity.Until all parties at the table can move beyond perceptions of slights where none is intended than it makes it impossible to address issues of substance.Now let me put my soapbox back upon the shelf. Sorry.

Boy, have you hit the nail on the head concerning open dialogue in America,

[ramon]

From the Cuban and Caribbean Studies at Tulane:

"New Orleans, a city much more caribbean than southern, shares much history with Cuba, and specifically Havana. The cities of New Orleans and Havana share a rich historical heritage which continues to be a strong bonding force today. The Spanish presence impacted the culture of both cities in similar ways and is readily seen in the beautiful architecture of many of New Orleans' and Havana's old buildings."

The implications of this can be very diverse - it explains the uniqueness of the city´s culture and music today ( imagine that something so nice as the afro-caribbean culture and music are the fruits of something that awful as the slavetrade..).

[MormonMatthew]

Hey Now Ramon--- There is a wonderful little cuban resturante-bar in the French Quarter, (on Iberville) that I have been going to for many years. It is family owned, and I have talked to the propriters several times. They are all Cuban born, and have told me how similar Havana and New Orleans are...... They are lovely people, and I recommend you stop in for a refresco the next time you visit New Orleans!!! Welcome to the Jazzfest board, Matthew.

[ramon]

Hey Now Ramon--- There is a wonderful little cuban resturante-bar in the French Quarter, (on Iberville) that I have been going to for many years. It is family owned, and I have talked to the propriters several times. They are all Cuban born, and have told me how similar Havana and New Orleans are...... They are lovely people, and I recommend you stop in for a refresco the next time you visit New Orleans!!! Welcome to the Jazzfest board, Matthew.

Millon thanks Matthew!