The Ray Davies Case Comes Back In A Typically Frustrating Way

[AtPontchartrain]

Rock star's shooting case, another dropped by DA
Posted by The Times-Picayune July 26, 2007 9:30PM

By Gwen Filosa
Staff writer

Even a rock star has trouble finding justice in the New Orleans courts these days.

For the second time since they first brought the case three years ago, Orleans Parish prosecutors Thursday dismissed all charges against a man accused of robbing and shooting rock 'n' roll legend Ray Davies in the Faubourg Marigny.

Instead of facing trial for the 2004 armed robbery and aggravated battery, Jerome Barra, 28, was freed and the case was closed at Orleans Parish Criminal District Court.

District Attorney Eddie Jordan's office said charges were dropped because Davies, of London, who emerged during the 1960s British Invasion as the frontman for The Kinks, didn't appear Thursday for trial.

Prosecutors sent word of the trial to Davies only a few days ago, asking him to come testify, according to the rock musician. Davies' absence at a scheduled trial in 2005 prompted Jordan's office to drop the case then, reserving the right to take a second swipe at Barra.

Davies, however, said he couldn't possibly have made it to New Orleans with what he called such scant notice. He expressed dismay with the merry-go-round pattern of the criminal case since he took a bullet in the leg three years ago during a visit to the city.

"I am very disappointed with the way this case has been handled," Davies said Thursday. "I intend to pursue it further."

Jordan's spokesman Dalton Savwoir would only say Thursday that Davies being a no-show tanked the trial and the case, but court records show that prosecutors, the defense and Judge Calvin Johnson committed to the trial date on May 17...

much more http://blog.nola.com/times-picayune/2007/07/rock_stars_shooting_case_anoth.html

[rosetree]

AtP: I saw this last night and have mixed feelings. Yes, this is another example of the ineptitude of our criminal justice system, but.....Mr. Davies was told, according to the article, about the trial on May 17. Wasn't that enough time to prepare to show up?

[AtPontchartrain]

AtP: I saw this last night and have mixed feelings. Yes, this is another example of the ineptitude of our criminal justice system, but.....Mr. Davies was told, according to the article, about the trial on May 17. Wasn't that enough time to prepare to show up?

I didn't see the tv news, but the T-P article says "Prosecutors sent word of the trial to Davies only a few days ago, asking him..." though it shows they set the court date on May 16 or 17. What I infer is that when they set the trial date, they carefully marked that in their calendars or Blackberries, but the prosecutor proceeded to do nothing ... until a few days before trial date. Then he or she called up Mr. Davies and said, Come on down! Procrastination is not a good trial tactic!!

[rosetree]

From T/P:
Jordan's spokesman Dalton Savwoir would only say Thursday that Davies being a no-show tanked the trial and the case, but court records show that prosecutors, the defense and Judge Calvin Johnson committed to the trial date on May 17

So the prosecuters, defense, AND the judge knew about it, but Mr. Davies didn't?????

[AtPontchartrain]

From T/P:
Jordan's spokesman Dalton Savwoir would only say Thursday that Davies being a no-show tanked the trial and the case, but court records show that prosecutors, the defense and Judge Calvin Johnson committed to the trial date on May 17

So the prosecuters, defense, AND the judge knew about it, but Mr. Davies didn't?????

Yes. The attorneys probably had a status conference -- just attorneys and the judge -- on May 17 and picked a date for the trial when they would all be downtown and not in some other court or playing golf or going to Alabama Resorts for "continuing education" or attending fundraisers. Then, each side's attorney had the job of booking and finishing the preparation of the witnesses, lining up the evidence, planning a strategy, etc. There might have been some plea talk which might have led the prosecutor to think he wouldn't really need any witnesses ... like the victim. And so, and here I'm finally speculating, all the rest being totally accurate, the prosecutor didn't think to call Ray Davies until just a few days before trial. That must have been some phone call.

[jolie]

Yes I read this one in depth this am. Seems once again, though, they could have the wrong guy... they nailed the driver of the car, not the actual gunman. Of course that's just his word... So 2 criminals actually go free on this one.

Yes all this while my son who was taken IN Wednesday Night after a rountine traffic stop showed an outstanding warrant for a charge in 2004. He went to court and charges were dropped in 2005. Now out of the blue it shows up (someone's clerical error). His lawyer is on it and he may be out tonight, but meanwhile he misses 3 days of work, and probably our vacation next week. He tells me the criminals who come in each night for actual charges/crimes, have seen judges the next morning where bond gets set and they are released. Meanwhile he still hasn't seen a judge. This feeling of having absolutely no control is so upsetting, what do you do?? Phone calls get ya nowhere. Yes, I can write letters. No one will ever be held accountable. It sucks!!

[rosetree]

Yes. The attorneys probably had a status conference -- just attorneys and the judge -- on May 17 and picked a date for the trial when they would all be downtown and not in some other court or playing golf or going to Alabama Resorts for "continuing education" or attending fundraisers. Then, each side's attorney had the job of booking and finishing the preparation of the witnesses, lining up the evidence, planning a strategy, etc. There might have been some plea talk which might have led the prosecutor to think he wouldn't really need any witnesses ... like the victim. And so, and here I'm finally speculating, all the rest being totally accurate, the prosecutor didn't think to call Ray Davies until just a few days before trial. That must have been some phone call.

I guess someone needs a new lawyer! :eek:

[bywterbro]

,i dont see anywhere in the article that Davies was informed in May...
this is all i could find about notificiation.....if theres something in the article
about Davies being informed back in May i must have missed it....

"Prosecutors sent word of the trial to Davies only a few days ago, asking him to come testify, according to the rock musician. Davies' absence at a scheduled trial in 2005 prompted Jordan's office to drop the case then, reserving the right to take a second swipe at Barra.

Davies, however, said he couldn't possibly have made it to New Orleans with what he called such scant notice. He expressed dismay with the merry-go-round pattern of the criminal case since he took a bullet in the leg three years ago during a visit to the city.

"I am very disappointed with the way this case has been handled," Davies said Thursday. "I intend to pursue it further."

Jordan's spokesman Dalton Savwoir would only say Thursday that Davies being a no-show tanked the trial and the case, but court records show that prosecutors, the defense and Judge Calvin Johnson committed to the trial date on May 17."

and this was all i could find about the delays in the case...

A high rate of turnover of prosecutors is a factor in the case's stalling, the court record shows. More than a half dozen assistant district attorneys have had the Davies shooting case on their plate before leaving the office.

Court delays are another factor. Assistant District Attorney Jackie Maloney wrote in a motion filed in March that between April 7, 2004, and April 20, 2005, hearings over the case were postponed 13 times -- seven times by

[Belle]

So the prosecuters, defense, AND the judge knew about it, but Mr. Davies didn't?????


That was my take on it Rosetree! Very strange and really outrageous. Some letters to the editor are in order.

[Papins]

I'm just wondering; Is Jordan a re-elected D.A.?

[jolie]

I'm just wondering; Is Jordan a re-elected D.A.?

Not re-elected. Elected in 2002 to succeed Harry Connick Sr.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u40/sarahuth2007/america.gif

I reside in St. Tammany so have no vote in N.O

[rosetree]

Jolie:
There are many more eligable voters for American Idol than president! ;)

[ibjamn]

Not re-elected. Elected in 2002 to succeed Harry Connick Sr.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u40/sarahuth2007/america.gif

I reside in St. Tammany so have no vote in N.O

The much adored HC, Sr, I might add. Harry Sr. was first elected in 1973, winning over Jim Garrison and was re-elected ever since until 2002. He also had a modest singing career. I miss him :*(

[mightyradgumbo]

I guess someone needs a new lawyer! :eek:

Unfortunately, RT, Davies' "lawyer" on this is the prosecutor of the case. They should have let Davies or his people know within a couple of days of the trial date being set. Unfortunately they did not do so until Thursday. Once again, the ineptness of the DA's office comes shining through. If Jordan is re-elected that will be the most screwed up result since they re-elected hmmmm lets see....oh yeah, Nagin!

[rosetree]

Unfortunately, RT, Davies' "lawyer" on this is the prosecutor of the case. They should have let Davies or his people know within a couple of days of the trial date being set. Unfortunately they did not do so until Thursday. Once again, the ineptness of the DA's office comes shining through. If Jordan is re-elected that will be the most screwed up result since they re-elected hmmmm lets see....oh yeah, Nagin!

This case is so freakin' screwed up...it is just another beacon shining on the ineptitude of the criminal justice system in NO! Hopefully the electorate will have had enough of this bullshit when the next election comes along:eek: ...I know I had my fill at the last one.:mad:

[breambob]

The much adored HC, Sr, I might add. Harry Sr. was first elected in 1973, winning over Jim Garrison and was re-elected ever since until 2002. He also had a modest singing career. I miss him :*(

I first saw HCJr when he about a twelve yo, he was playing at JF with his daddy's band. HCSr had the best "Big Band" group in town in the 60s and 70s.

I can't believe the names I've seen on this bored the last two days:
Spiro Agnew and Jim Garrison. Are things begining to spin out of control?

;)

[grisgris]

Use to go see Harry C Sr. in a little club on Toulouse. He was always so sweet & thanked everybody for coming to his gig.

[ScoopJohnD]

This was written in 2005 and printed in the London Times It's a bit critcal of the Nola health care system and the some of the policies of the U.S. in general. But read the love he feels for New Orleans and the heartbreak and you will probably believe as I do that he truly does want to come back and testify about this case. In any event, it's one of the most eloquent articles I've read about New Orleans.


From The Times
September 7, 2005

Away from the partying it was obvious to a dedicated follower of the city that disaster was around the corner


Ray Davies

I SPENT the early part of last year in New Orleans recovering from gunshot wounds received as I was being robbed. It happened in the early evening as I walked down a quiet street with my girlfriend. There was a football game in town and the streets near the French Quarter were empty. The police presence was elsewhere. The incident itself was over in a flash but it plays over and over in my head and perhaps one day it will make sense to me.
I found out later that there were fewer than 2,000 police in New Orleans at that time and it reached such a point that there was talk of the city was importing officers from Cleveland. Anyway, thanks to someone’s mobile phone, the police eventually got to the scene.

Later, as I was carried into the emergency room at Charity hospital, a doctor reassured me that “New Orleans really is the best place to get shot”. They had, he explained, had plenty of practice.

The same week I was shot, I read that three other tourists were killed near to where I was attacked. Tourists were urged not to fight back after being mugged (I was continually reminded of this by the district attorney’s officials, who were critical of the way I chased the man who robbed my girlfriend).

There were additional complications to my injuries and my gunshot wounds were not as clean as first thought. Before I was taken in for my first operation, a priest came and gave me a little spiritual assistance. Later I was even serenaded by a nurse who whispered slow, mournful gospel songs in the style of Mahalia Jackson.

During my initial week-long stay in hospital and lengthy recuperation, I observed first-hand the bankruptcy of the New Orleans health system. Several doctors who treated me actually apologised for the low standard of healthcare in Louisiana. Even so, they gave me the best of what they did have, for which I am grateful.

I have just looked through some notes in the diary I made after I was operated on and one seems chillingly relevant. “How can the USA be expected to look after the whole world when it cannot even look after its own?” So it doesn’t surprise me to see the world reacting with shock to the “Third World” conditions in New Orleans “in this, the richest and most powerful country in the world”. I could have told them that.

But I have been astonished by the reactions and apparent shame of some of the US television reporters who seemed overwhelmed to discover that there actually is poverty in America. They made me want to grab my television and shout “Hello, dear reporter, yes, America actually does have poor and underprivileged people as well. Hello, yes, the President might well be slow to react but at times like this, that’s all that an over-burdened, out-of-touch president can be.”

After watching the scenes on television in the past few days, it occurred to me that if any place in the world could survive this catastrophe, it would be New Orleans. Significantly, in the most deprived parts of the city, there are churches and Gospel halls. Faith has to be strong because often it is all most of the people have.

When I was last in New Orleans, I was driven around the city by a friend who pointed out the pump houses that seemed antiquated to me even then. The levees seemed insufficient for the amount of water surrounding the city. The roads were uneven and the tap water pressure in most houses was weak. The whole system appeared improvised, but according to my friend it all “seemed to have worked well enough so far given that there is not enough funding to improve it ”. Locals would joke: “Yep, it is like the Third World but, hey, this is N’Awlins. Nothin’s perfect. That’s what’s so great about it.”

I agreed but deep down I felt the whole infrastructure was very fragile. New Orleans is a party town, after all, and when tourists walk down Bourbon Street drinking frozen Daiquiri during Jazz Fest, crime, unemployment and environmental issues are far from their minds.

It was clear to me, however, that away from all the festivities something disastrous was on the cards. Too many things pointed in that direction. Why didn’t the people who are supposed to be experts on this stuff react sooner? The problem we all know by now is money. Budgets. America’s preoccupation with wars overseas. Nobody cares about the poor. Etc, etc.

At the time of my shooting I was trying to develop a musical event for a local school in New Orleans to raise funds for instruments and new uniforms for them to wear at Mardi Gras. Music, particularly in the school marching bands, gives many of the kids down there an opportunity to participate in the local community. This in turn raises their expectations and it is to be hoped, stops them descending into the local drug and gang culture waiting around the corner. I was due back later in the year to put on a show for Thanksgiving to raise a few extra bucks for the community. This all seems so trivial now.
But the reality is that without its music New Orleans would have been a forgotten city long ago. The music of the American South inspired me and helped to shape me as a musician. They say that jazz started on Perdido Street in New Orleans and even Louis Armstrong honed his trade in the honky-tonks on Bourbon Street.

I owe as much to music of the Southern states as I do to the British music that inspired me. If New Orleans is allowed to die, a crucial part of the world’s musical heritage will disappear.

Right now, the flooded streets of New Orleans might seem just an American responsibility but sometimes even the most powerful people need help. Whatever we think of George W. Bush we cannot take it out on the poor and needy in Louisiana and Mississippi. (He won’t be there in four years — they will.) Numerous people befriended me while I was there. Gradually, word is getting back to me that they are safe. One friend made it to Dallas with her family. Others are now scattered across the South: Jackson, Mississippi, Memphis. One musician friend is still missing.

I think about what has happened to some of the faceless, scary “neighbours” who kept me awake at night while they partied and chanted songs on the corner of St Claude and Governor Nichols when I last stayed there. I hope they made it.

And lastly, I think about the bicycle I left behind. New Orleans is almost entirely flat — as the world knows all too well now — and I found that a bike ride was a great way to get around while strengthening my injured leg.
When I left last year I forgot to put the padlock on my bike. Whoever took it, I pray that they get to ride it around the French Quarter again soon.

Ray Davies was lead singer of the Kinks.

[AtPontchartrain]

T
Right now, the flooded streets of New Orleans might seem just an American responsibility but sometimes even the most powerful people need help. Whatever we think of George W. Bush we cannot take it out on the poor and needy in Louisiana and Mississippi. (He won’t be there in four years — they will.)

I think GWB wanted to avoid the "humiliation" of accepting aid.

==============================

A new report reveals the US government turned down offers of help from across the globe in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, telling one diplomat "human assistance of any kind is not on our priorities list."

The report from Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington relies on a review of 25,000 documents obtained from the State Department. The report reveals the US was interested mostly in cash assistance and materials, rather than direct aid from foreign relief workers and doctors, after Katrina ravaged the Gulf Coast in 2005.

"A review of the State Department documents reveals distressing ineptitude," CREW's executive director Melanie Sloan said in a prepared statement. "Countries were trying to donate desperately needed goods and services, but as a result of bureaucratic bungling and indifference, those most in need of these generous offers and of aid never received it."

Offers to help came from 145 countries and 12 international organizations. The US did accept help from its top allies around the globe, but CREW's report shows it left unclaimed hundreds of thousands of prepared meals, water pumps, doctors and medicine.

Many of the offers were turned down because of a strict adherence to bureaucratic regulations, the report reveals. For example, questions about medical licensing prevented foreign-trained doctors from helping in the Gulf Coast.

"All, The (sic) word here is that doctors of any kind are in the 'forget about it' category," read an e-mail from the State Department responding to an offer of assistance from Argentina. "Human assistance of any kind is not on our priorities list ... It's all about goods, not people, at this point."

A ban on British beef in place over fears of Mad Cow disease prevented Meals Ready to Eat from the UK being given to Katrina refugees. The uneaten MREs were kept in a storage unit at a cost of $16,000 per month, according to the report.

The disorganization that plagued Katrina cleanup efforts also strained diplomatic relations, when the US ignored offers of aid from other countries.

"It is getting downright embarrassing here not to have a response to the Estonians on flood relief," Jeffrey Goldstein, a U.S. Embassy official in Estonia, wrote in an e-mail to several State Department officials. "... We know that what the Estonians can offer is small potatoes and everyone at FEMA is swamped, but at this point even 'thanks but no thanks' is better than deafening silence."

An Israeli plane filled with supplies for the relief effort sat fully loaded on an airport tarmac for more than 48 hours because of a lack of communication from the US, according to another e-mail released with the report.

"The vendors are getting restless. They offered this stuff 48 hours ago, and the government hasn't responded," wrote an unidentified State Department official. "I've been on the phone with the [Israeli] attache every couple of hours since noon ... they're patient, but not amused by our delay, obviously."

http://www.citizensforethics.org/node/29651

[bywterbro]

I think GWB wanted to avoid the "humiliation" of accepting aid.

==============================

A new report reveals the US government turned down offers of help from across the globe in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, telling one diplomat "human assistance of any kind is not on our priorities list."

The report from Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington relies on a review of 25,000 documents obtained from the State Department. The report reveals the US was interested mostly in cash assistance and materials, rather than direct aid from foreign relief workers and doctors, after Katrina ravaged the Gulf Coast in 2005.

"A review of the State Department documents reveals distressing ineptitude," CREW's executive director Melanie Sloan said in a prepared statement. "Countries were trying to donate desperately needed goods and services, but as a result of bureaucratic bungling and indifference, those most in need of these generous offers and of aid never received it."

Offers to help came from 145 countries and 12 international organizations. The US did accept help from its top allies around the globe, but CREW's report shows it left unclaimed hundreds of thousands of prepared meals, water pumps, doctors and medicine.

Many of the offers were turned down because of a strict adherence to bureaucratic regulations, the report reveals. For example, questions about medical licensing prevented foreign-trained doctors from helping in the Gulf Coast.

"All, The (sic) word here is that doctors of any kind are in the 'forget about it' category," read an e-mail from the State Department responding to an offer of assistance from Argentina. "Human assistance of any kind is not on our priorities list ... It's all about goods, not people, at this point."

A ban on British beef in place over fears of Mad Cow disease prevented Meals Ready to Eat from the UK being given to Katrina refugees. The uneaten MREs were kept in a storage unit at a cost of $16,000 per month, according to the report.

The disorganization that plagued Katrina cleanup efforts also strained diplomatic relations, when the US ignored offers of aid from other countries.

"It is getting downright embarrassing here not to have a response to the Estonians on flood relief," Jeffrey Goldstein, a U.S. Embassy official in Estonia, wrote in an e-mail to several State Department officials. "... We know that what the Estonians can offer is small potatoes and everyone at FEMA is swamped, but at this point even 'thanks but no thanks' is better than deafening silence."

An Israeli plane filled with supplies for the relief effort sat fully loaded on an airport tarmac for more than 48 hours because of a lack of communication from the US, according to another e-mail released with the report.

"The vendors are getting restless. They offered this stuff 48 hours ago, and the government hasn't responded," wrote an unidentified State Department official. "I've been on the phone with the [Israeli] attache every couple of hours since noon ... they're patient, but not amused by our delay, obviously."

http://www.citizensforethics.org/node/29651


Ive been reading about this in bits and pieces ever since the levees broke..
Israel had 2 floating hospitals ready to go, and were turned down...
many countries offered doctors and were turned down as stated in this
article......even cash donations I believe have still not been accepted from
some countries?
thanks for posting Ponch....

[ScoopJohnD]

Well I read the article and once again the T-P offhandidly slides somthing into the middle of a story that should have HUGE question marks and demands follow up and lets it sit there like a beached whale.

Suspect's account

Davies and his friend gave police the Pontiac's license plate number, and a 25-year-old Barra was arrested before 4 a.m. the next day. Barra cooperated with detectives by giving a statement implicating himself as the driver, but he always maintained that he was an unwitting accomplice to the crime.

Barra, whose statement was recorded on audio tape, said he was driving his cousin Kawan Johnson around that night but had no idea a robbery had been planned. Barra said he was sitting in his car when he heard gunfire and looked up to see a man lying on the ground. His cousin jumped back into his car and Barra drove away, Barra told police.

(my emphasis)ON MARCH 5, 2004,PROSECUTORS FOCUSED ONLY ON BARRA, HOWEVER, CHARGING HIM ALONE WITH ARMED ROBBERY AND AGGRAVATED BATTERY IN CONNECTION WITH THE STREETSIDE ATTACK.

Alleged gunman not pursued

(my emphasis again) PROSECUTORS HAVE NEVER EXPLAINED WHY POLICE NEVER PERSUED BARRA'S LEAD ON THE SUSPECTED GUNMAN.

[bywterbro]

they should have at least questioned the other supsect, theyve had quite
a long time to do so...

and on another subject, what about the prostitute here in new orleans
who claimed she had a relationship with Vitter.....he claimed it was not true..
hopefully someone is following up on this...

[jolie]

Well I read the article and once again the T-P offhandidly slides somthing into the middle of a story that should have HUGE question marks and demands follow up and lets it sit there like a beached whale.

Suspect's account

Davies and his friend gave police the Pontiac's license plate number, and a 25-year-old Barra was arrested before 4 a.m. the next day. Barra cooperated with detectives by giving a statement implicating himself as the driver, but he always maintained that he was an unwitting accomplice to the crime.

Barra, whose statement was recorded on audio tape, said he was driving his cousin Kawan Johnson around that night but had no idea a robbery had been planned. Barra said he was sitting in his car when he heard gunfire and looked up to see a man lying on the ground. His cousin jumped back into his car and Barra drove away, Barra told police.

(my emphasis)ON MARCH 5, 2004,PROSECUTORS FOCUSED ONLY ON BARRA, HOWEVER, CHARGING HIM ALONE WITH ARMED ROBBERY AND AGGRAVATED BATTERY IN CONNECTION WITH THE STREETSIDE ATTACK.

Alleged gunman not pursued

(my emphasis again) PROSECUTORS HAVE NEVER EXPLAINED WHY POLICE NEVER PERSUED BARRA'S LEAD ON THE SUSPECTED GUNMAN.

I posted this pages back.... If we were to believe Barra's word (which is questionable), That would make 2 violent criminals back on the streets????

[bywterbro]

it leaves peaceful citizens no choice but to pack a weapon in self defense..

[ibjamn]

it leaves peaceful citizens no choice but to pack a weapon in self defense..

Dude! That's crazy talk and scares me lots worse than criminals.

[marignygreg]

Dude! That's crazy talk and scares me lots worse than criminals.

Agreed. We need less guns on the street, not more. What you will get is a gunfight on the street. That being said, I did not feel to bad for the thug that got killed while trying to rob someone on Rampart a few months back.

[breambob]

Agreed. We need less guns on the street, not more. What you will get is a gunfight on the street. That being said, I did not feel to bad for the thug that got killed while trying to rob someone on Rampart a few months back.

I had some nice guns and a CAC when I moved to New Orleans. Sold them soon after I moved in. It was the first place I had lived where I thought I might actually have to use them. It scared me.
Now I depend on my X-Trainer shoes. Good grip on any surface while running away. And if I can't dodge the bullets, that's TFB for me. But most times in NO, I'm bulletproof and invisible, so....

I miss my single action five-shooter when I'm on the lake and in backcountry, but not that much anymore, I carry a machete. The snakes are no match against steel (if you see them first.) And gators don't like pepper spray.
Having said that, half the men and women I work with carry. Maybe that's a Shreveport thang, but the violent crime rate is quite low here.

[jolie]

I've NEVER felt the need for a gun. If I ever felt that kinda a fear, it would be my time to go (leave NO that is) ..... But it certainly is one's right.

[mightyradgumbo]

Dude! That's crazy talk and scares me lots worse than criminals.

YYR, Jenn. As someone who was trained as both a shooter in close combat situations and as a sniper, I can tell you that the majority of people that carry weapons do not know how to properly fire them. This is a multi-fold problem. a) it leaves the person pulling a gun in "self-defense" screwed if they miss b) it puts too many guns on the street and c) it puts innocent bystanders in harm's way even more than with just criminals carrying weapons.
Having been in the military with several people from the south and the gulf, I feel more confident in y'alls ability to maintain weapons than my northern breathran but it still is a slippery slope in my eyes. It may not be fact at this moment in time but Houston had one of the highest per capita rates of people with permits to carry and it was still one of the most violent so it doesn't really show that it reduces crime rates-at least in that case.

[Zydekitten]

YYR, Jenn. As someone who was trained as both a shooter in close combat situations and as a sniper, I can tell you that the majority of people that carry weapons do not know how to properly fire them. This is a multi-fold problem. a) it leaves the person pulling a gun in "self-defense" screwed if they miss b) it puts too many guns on the street and c) it puts innocent bystanders in harm's way even more than with just criminals carrying weapons.
Having been in the military with several people from the south and the gulf, I feel more confident in y'alls ability to maintain weapons than my northern breathran but it still is a slippery slope in my eyes. It may not be fact at this moment in time but Houston had one of the highest per capita rates of people with permits to carry and it was still one of the most violent so it doesn't really show that it reduces crime rates-at least in that case.
Howard Johnson is right!

I flatly refuse to carry or own a gun and I did own one for awhile when I was married (no, not for the reason y'all are musing). My (ex)husband, who was raised in Louisville - wanted to get a Sig Sauer for home protection and we "discussed" it for a very long time . . . I eventually agreed, due to the fact that I trusted his history/expertise with guns and ammo. I also made the conditions that I know how to use it, and that the ammo was not kept right with the gun (in case we had any kidlets running around).

We went to the Beverly Hills Gun Club (yes, there really is one - not as fancy as in Beverly Hills Cop) and I learned how to use and shoot a semi-automatic. I was a good shot in summer camp and still am apparently, since I shot well at the human-shaped targets . . . weeping all the while, as all I could think of is that I was having to learn this to shoot people trying to harm me or mine (which I damn well would do, don't get me wrong).

But, since my divorce (my ex got custody of the gun, thank Buddha) - I am gun-free and will stay that way. I don't want to play into the cycle of fear and gun-related crime.

That is all.

[mdfest]

When I awoke one morning at 3am to someone pounding on my front door, shining a light into my house- nothing felt better than my 357 Smith and Wesson in my hand. It turned out to be the police(911 hangup call mistake), but what if it wasnt?
Im just sayin- when you want one, its too late to get one. Steal what you want downstairs, i dont care. Just dont come upstairs- ill be in the laundry room waiting for you.

[Belle]

When I awoke one morning at 3am to someone pounding on my front door, shining a light into my house- nothing felt better than my 357 Smith and Wesson in my hand. It turned out to be the police(911 hangup call mistake), but what if it wasnt?
Im just sayin- when you want one, its too late to get one. Steal what you want downstairs, i dont care. Just dont come upstairs- ill be in the laundry room waiting for you.


:D