intense article bout history and commericialization of jazzfest,

[bywterbro]

Jazz Fest 2007 / The Music Angle
Big-Box Fest
The New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival is back --
bigger and more blatantly commercialized than ever

By Roger Hahn

There is no music event in the world quite like the New Orleans Jazz &
Heritage Festival. Held this year for the 38th time since its founding
in 1970, the festival began as a tiny gathering celebrating the music
and cultural heritage of one of America?s most distinctive urban
environments. And as festival organizers never tire of relating, the
festival was so small its first year that artists actually outnumbered
audience members.

Not so today, when megamall-size crowds assemble on the last weekend
of April and the first weekend of May under late-spring, Gulf Coast
skies. Circulating around 11 outdoor stages, 45 outdoor food booths,
and three major outdoor craft areas scattered around the Fair Grounds
Race Course ? the third-oldest horse-racing track in the nation ?
their numbers frequently approach the population of a small suburban
city.

The two weekends of the festival itself serve as anchor events for
what has now become an almost unbelievable variety of musical
presentation, with independent producers launching several auditorium
and clubs series, local venues presenting special programs, and
grassroots groups organizing alternative events.

Toss in tens of thousands of visitors hellbent on musical ecstasy and
local cuisine and what you have is a heady atmosphere prevailing for
the better part of two weeks in which music and music-related culture
dominate the civic psyche.

And where else can you see Van Morrison in top form one day, kicking
off an American tour, and Rod Stewart the next, also in top form,
retooling his standard touring repertoire for a one-time-only
appearance as Rod the Rocker? Or segue from Bonnie Raitt enthralling a
crowd of 30,000-plus with an acoustic rendition of ?Angel from
Montgomery? straight to cherubic and sexy Rosie Ledet enthralling a
crowd of 500-plus with her soulful and deeply rhythmic zydeco
renditions?

Never mind the effect of a galvanizing experience like straining from
the sidelines of a packed gospel tent on a broiling Saturday afternoon
to witness local soul icon Irma Thomas -- resplendent in a flowing
white cotton gown/robe -- re-inhabit the repertoire of New Orleans
legend Mahalia Jackson, invigorating the audience, summoning the
celestial spirits, and clearly establishing a New Orleans Jazz Fest
tradition that will likely last as long as the radiant 65-year-old Ms.
Thomas does.

A Paradise Where Music Reigns Supreme

In fact, a different kind of music-oriented social order is created
during Jazz Fest, one where independent promoters flourish, midnight
jams are the norm and a relatively unknown musician like pianist,
vocalist, and all-round funkmaster Jon Cleary can reign supreme as
heads of state. Cleary ? one of the legion of insanely determined
Brits who fell in love early with American blues and soul and set
their sights on acquiring mastery of it ? served a ten-year
apprenticeship in New Orleans before taking over the keys in Bonnie
Raitt?s touring band five years ago.

At this year?s Jazz Fest, Cleary was everywhere ? backing Bonnie,
putting on his own main-stage show, making several appearances on the
club circuit, even sitting in one night at the elegantly appointed
Carousel Bar in the Monteleone Hotel (a world-famous hangout for
world-famous Southern writers) for a stunning set of early jazz,
boogie woogie, New Orleans R&B, and modern soul. His self-produced EP
of four cuts ? downloadable for five bucks at his Web site,
www.joncleary.com ? was easily the bargain CD of this year?s Fest.

Jazz Fest is also the kind of event where special moments have become
expected, with outstanding acts of musical inspiration marking the
festival?s slow progression to what is almost always a dramatic
climax. This year, the climax was carried off in true New Orleans
style as one of the city?s most revered music teachers, Alvin Batiste,
passed away just 12 hours before his scheduled appearance the final
Sunday on a program that featured Branford Marsalis and Harry Connick,
Jr., and was intended to honor the avuncular Mr. Bat as well as
drummer and bandleader Bob French.

A master clarinetist, Batiste recently recorded a fine CD for
Marsalis? signature label, and about a dozen years put out a CD on
Columbia called Late that is well worth finding.

That Batiste?s death should dominate the festival?s closing
performances seemed almost too perfectly appropriate, even beyond the
obvious associations with New Orleans? signature custom the of the
jazz funeral. Batiste represented the best of New Orleans in his deep
commitment to music without concern for wealth or celebrity, and in
his unswerving dedication to educating younger generations -- an
activity that produced a long line of singularly motivated and broadly
educated protégés like drummer Herlin Riley, saxophonist Donald
Harrison, pianist-singer Henry Butler, and pop-jazz saxophonist
Branford Marsalis.

But he also exemplifies the New Orleans tradition in another way --
through his towering, but largely obscure, musical reputation.

The Mother of All Music & Culture Festivals

And the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival is distinguished for
another reason that has nothing to do with what happens there on a
year-to-year basis, but rather for what the enterprise-as-a-whole
represents. Throughout the world, it is viewed as the mother of all
modern festivals, one of the oldest, biggest, and best incarnations of
a genre that has not only spread around the world but to nearly every
city and town in America ? the celebratory event that spotlights local
culture and promotes the attractions of the local tourism industry.

As such, it served as the cornerstone for a sprawling
festival-production empire (known as Festival Productions, Inc.) that,
at time or another, has been responsible for staging as many as three
dozen music festivals annually over the past four decades in cities
all around the globe. Festival Productions, Inc., is an extension of
music impresario George Wein, and through him (and through the shared
use of ?jazz? in its name), New Orleans? Jazz Fest can trace its
roots to the celebrated Newport Jazz Festivals of the mid-to-late
1950s, perhaps the most famous and influential events in all of jazz
history.

The Newport Jazz Festival has become known, partly through the
subsequent success of New Orleans? Jazz Fest, as the anointed location
where a formal appreciation of American roots music began by elevating
the concept of the jazz concert and amplifying the notion of what
music belongs onstage. The series of evening concerts organized in the
swank New England summer resort with support of the tobacco-baron
Lorillard family got Miles Davis his first Columbia contract; put Duke
Ellington on the cover of Time magazine; and generally gave jazz a
more-prominent profile on the American cultural landscape, epitomized
by the breezy-cool Newport Jazz festival documentary Jazz on a
Summer?s Day.

While it?s true, in many ways, that Newport represents the apotheosis
of a movement to elevate the status of jazz, the Newport Jazz
Festival?s claim to a higher status for jazz in the late 1950s was
very much a mixed bag. And at the center of the most troubling
questions raised by both the Newport and New Orleans festivals is the
ubiquitous figure of George Wein, a club owner from Boston and
world-renowned jazz impresario whose presence in the history of jazz
performance mirrors the recording company career of Atlantic Records?
Ahmet Ertegun.

Both men came from the moneyed class, first emerged as champions of
working class music, and eventually became fabulously wealthy
entertainment-industry businessmen.

Calling into Question ?the Fat Hand of Bigness?

As soon as Wein established the success of the first jazz festival in
Newport, he set about commercializing it, as social historian John
Gennari reports in Blowin? Hot and Cool, a history of jazz criticism,
paying large fees to the most-popular performers (like Benny Goodman
and Dave Brubeck) and adding audience-expanding acts, like the
Kingston Trio, to jazz bills. And just as quickly, well-established
jazz critics attempted to blow the whistle on him.

In 1956, Whitney Balliett, jazz writer for The New Yorker, said he
suspected the ?fat hand of bigness? taking over at Newport, and Wein?s
Boston boyhood buddy Nat Hentoff, a first-amendment advocate who?d
guided Wein in matters of jazz history during his early years as a
club owner, said what the promoter was now up to amounted to nothing
less than ?a money-grabbing enterprise of the same category as any
giant midway staffed with shell games, taffy candy, freak shows, and
thrill rides.?

Wein?s response to these criticisms, then and now, has always been the
same, criticizing the critics for attacking an enterprise whose real
goal, he says, is to make marginal music like jazz ?accessible to the
public.? ?I?m really no different than the critics,? he told Billboard
in 2000 on the occasion of his 75th birthday and 50th year in the
music business. ?We both have ideals about the music. I?ve always been
concerned about getting respect for the music ... I thought if I could
bring more people into Newport to hear the music, maybe some of them
would become real jazz fans.?

But the story of Wein?s life is not one of a relentless campaign
proselytizing for jazz; instead, it?s the story of a wealthy plastic
surgeon?s son from the posh Jewish suburbs of Boston who built a
concert-promoting empire on the social cachet of what we now call
America?s classical music.

In the end, Wein?s financial profile resembles that of no jazz critic
who ever lived and very few musicians, with substantial proceeds in
his pocket from the recent sale of his company in to Festival Network
LLC, a newly formed partnership between music producers Shoreline
Media and marketing experts Constellation Brands; his reputation
ensured by a self-funded, full-length biography; several homes around
the world, including a large country chateau in France; a substantial
collection of African American art; and an endowed chair in his and
his late wife?s names (the George and Joyce Wein Chair in African
American Studies) at hometown alma mater Boston University (minimum
tab: $1 million).

Raising an Ivy League Ruckus: The Undeterrable Mr. Wein

And almost as soon as Wein established the genre of the jazz festival
as a requirement of American entertainment, it blew up in his face.
With total attendance approaching 250,000 in 1960, musicians began
complaining about the lack of programming integrity (creating,
instead, their own alternative festival for the avant garde and the
up-and-coming), while crowds became a serious problem ? appealing to
an upper-class clientele, Wein attracted rowdy Ivy league frat boys
who took advantage of the occasion by getting roaring drunk and
rioting in the streets, where they hurled racist epithets and busted
storefront windows.

As a result, the city refused the festival in 1961; when the Newport
Jazz Festival returned in 1962, Wein took over control from the
nonprofit board that had been formed to run it. And he proceeded to
follow the same pattern that had gotten him into trouble originally,
pushing the limits of commercial appeal and focusing almost
exclusively on increasing audience size. In 1970, the Newport Jazz
Festival exploded for a second time, riding a tidal wave of rock
programming that put Sly and the Family Stone on stage before a rowdy
crowd of stoned and drunk Ivy League frat boys, who stampeded security
barriers and interrupted Wein?s tenure in Newport for a full decade.

Undeterred, Wein moved his base of operations to New York City and
struck upon the strategy that would not only shape his own success,
but would influence all American culture for much of the following
three-and-a-half decades: corporate sponsorship. The Newport Jazz
Festival became the New York-based Kool Jazz Festival in 1972 (and
later became the JVC Jazz Festival), while Festival Productions, Inc.
began courting corporate-sponsorship bed-partners almost as ardently
as it began wooing willing civic leaders, who saw only an upside in
trading the use of their locality for the panache and dollars a local
jazz festival would bring.

The New Orleans version of the Wein empire was no different. A 1982
article in Time magazine on the birth of ?brandstanding? (400
companies w/ major sponsorship budgets in 1980, 1,000 companies in
1982) cites the nascent New Orleans Jazz Fest as a prime example:
Schlitz sponsorship and Schlitz logos behind every stage reinforced
the company?s identity in the minds of festival goers, with the result
that ?not so incidentally, 400,000 cups of Schlitz were sold.?

The benefits to companies seemed clear to the writers at Time: the
high cost of TV advertising versus $10,000 of free publicity for every
$1,000 budgeted toward sponsorship.

The Hidden Costs of Corporate Sponsorship

What didn?t enter the equation in the minds of Time?s writers were
ancillary costs to others besides the chosen sponsors. In the case of
Jazz Fest, for example, beer vendors get exclusive to the festival,
which means beer drinkers can chose between Miller and Miller ? with
no options for local microbrewery Abita. In another example, Festival
organizers sold off exclusive Webcast rights in 2000 at the last
minute in a desperate attempt to increase revenues, precluding the
Festival foundation?s community radio station from Webcasting, despite
the fact the station had already set up its equipment and was ready to
go.

Today, in fact, corporate sponsorship in general is perceived as the
only reason the festival exists at all and corporate logos,
hospitality tents, bandstand spiels, and logoed polo shirts abound all
over the festival grounds. Never mind the tented Acura showroom
(official maps describe it as a ?display? that holds center stage in
the festival grounds? layout. Big name corporate sponsors besides
Acura this year also included Shell, AT&T, AIG, Capital One, Sheraton,
Southern Comfort, and a host of local financial services and
healthcare companies.

Time magazine, in fact, described this year?s festival as having been
?rescued from near death by a grant from Shell? and a central,
behind-the-scenes news conference was held for credentialed media
representatives just to announce that Shell?s big-bucks corporate
funding ? which includes use of the company?s name in the festival?s
formal title (the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival Sponsored by
Shell) -- would continue through 2010.

But it wasn?t a story that got much coverage, despite the incredible
irony that Lousiana?s wetlands are disappearing faster than copies of
the Sunday New York Times on the upper West Side of Manhattan, and
that this is happening largely because oil and gas companies have been
slicing work canals through and building work platforms in those
wetlands for more than half a century.

Never mind that those wetlands represent a primary barrier against
damage from hurricanes and especially hurricane-related storm surges.
Or that Shell?s financial helping hand has been offered with carefully
calculated benefits -- one day, it will be the oil & gas companies?
turn to pay for the damaged wetlands, and Shell?s sponsorship is
mostly just another Louisiana investment in case of a just finding in
a major class-action lawsuit.

Running Circles around the George Wein Equation

Festival organizers, for their part, have continued to justify the
need for corporate sponsorship ? and lots of it ? as a function of the
George Wein Equation: You have to be big to compete. Never mind, of
course, that the bigger the festival is, the bigger the production fee
is and, therefore, the bigger the profit is for the festival?s
producers.

?You can have all the Rod Stewarts you want,? Jazz Fest?s
noblesse-oblige director Quint Davis, son of the town?s leading Jewish
architect and director of the festival since its inception, told
reporters. ?If you get rained out, you could lose millions.? Never
mind either, of course, that hiring Rod Stewart in the first place is
what put all those millions on the line.

In the early days of the Newport jazz Festival, George Wein had a
similar complaint, based on the same kind of circular reasoning. ?Now
the big artists are taking all the money,? he told reporters. ?We are
spending more than ever before and getting less.?

Half a century later, jazz historian John Gennari described this
circling web of logical deception for what it is: ?Unable to see how
his own growth-oriented policy contributed to setting the trap he now
found himself in, Wein complained that his increasing overhead costs
(for publicity, staff, year-round organizational work) made it
necessary for him to tilt programming toward recognizable stars.?

And this year?s New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival (Presented by
Shell) had plenty of recognizable stars, including the likes of Van
Morrison, Norah Jones, Bonnie Raitt, John Legend, John Mayer, Rod
Stewart, Jill Scott, George Benson, Ludacris, Counting Crows, The
Allman Brothers, Steely Dan, Brad Paisley, and ZZ Top.

The Festival?s 25-member nonprofit board (who named themselves
members-for-life about a decade ago) also treated themselves to an
exclusive, $500-a-plate gala the night before the festival?s official
opening in a lushly decorated meeting room at Harrah?s Casino.

The event featured an exclusive performance by Al Jarreau, as well as
a big-name tribute from Jimmy Buffet to big-name festival friend (and
late 60 Minutes superstar) Ed Bradley, and a check presentation to
big-name Habitat for Humanity?s brandstanding Musicians? Village
project, sponsored by big New Orleans names Branford Marsalis and
Harry Connick, Jr.

Connick was also the only New Orleans name ? other than The Radiators
... you know, The Radiators ? to close any of the festival?s three
major stages on any of the event?s six days. The Neville Brothers,
who traditionally close the festival?s largest stage the final Sunday,
refused to play, in part because of what was reported in the local
daily to be a pay dispute.

No real news there, either. Low pay has been a perennial complaint of
nearly all local New Orleans musicians booked at Jazz Fest and usually
asked to perform for fees far below the big bucks being doled out to
the must-have big names.

Valet Parking, and Champagne Among the Ruins

The 2006 New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival will be remembered in
history as a transitional and dramatic year, organized while the city
was still reeling from its six-week soaking in flood waters ushered in
by the failure of substandard levees built by the Army Corps of
Engineers. Musicians were scattered, residents were devastated, the
future uncertain, and festivalgoers trudged to the site amidst FEMA
trailers aplenty.

In the end, a ragged but thrilling event was pulled off, with the
closing notes sounded not by the Nevilles or even scheduled closer
Fats Domino (paralyzed once again by chronic stage fright), but by
Lionel Richie, a last-minute replacement who seemed just right,
resonating with both black and white New Orleans residents who came of
age during Richie?s heyday, reminding the entire audience of a common
bond, shared pleasures, and better times.

This year, festival organizers took advantage of that tentative
triumph, using it as an excuse to build back ?bigger and better.?

?In our darkest hour, it was the Shell Company that came to our
rescue,? director Quint Davis told the city?s sole daily, the
Times-Picayune, which tends to print his pronouncements as
word-for-word transcriptions from Festival press releases. ?We were
the goldfish on the kitchen floor. They put us back in the bowl so we
could swim ... Then the headlines went away, the big spotlight went
away, and the festival had to prove itself on its own merit. We put a
lot on the line ... We spent a lot more money on the festival,
especially on talent. We made a bigger investment and made a much
bigger, better, stronger festival than last year.?

Big, new video screens were installed at major stages. Ticket prices
were increased once again, and ?Big Chief? packages for the privileged
-- access to tented grandstands behind and above the hoi-polloi,
exclusive parking, etc. at $600 a weekend -- sold out a month before
opening day. The three music tents outside the racetrack proper were
enlarged and shuffled around like shells in a sidewalk con game,
turning intimate settings into cavern-like auditoriums and leaving the
Jazz Tent at the Jazz & Heritage Festival the least accessible site on
the festival grounds.

But the signal event at this year?s Jazz & Heritage Festival surely
was the sale of on-site wine and champagne for the first time --
Francis Coppola?s private label (named for his chic director daughter,
Sophia) at $9 a pop in tiny six-ounce cans (Coppola keeps a little
pied-a-terre in French Quarter). Trailers still dotted lawns around
the festival grounds, but it was mostly the new New Orleans that was
in evidence -- one deeply immersed in denial.

Tax Credits, Boosterism, and a Lack of Housing

This was also the first year that New Orleans? Jazz Fest was organized
by a new company formed following George Wein?s sale of Festival
Productions in January to Festival Network LLC. That sale did not
include the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival, nor did it include
the annual 4th-of-July Essence Fest -- an upscale black event held in
the Superdome and sponsored by the black fashion magazine. (While Jazz
Fest pulled off an heroic triumph in 2005, Essence Fest fled the city
for Houston, where attendees universally reported having a miserable
time.)

So both the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival and Essence Fest are
now being produced by Festival Productions -New Orleans, a separate
company in which Wein remains a partner and in which, no doubt, Quint
Davis, Wein?s loyal protégé, also holds a position that will one day
put him in sole charge of New Orleans two largest, signature musical
events. And in almost every way possible, the 2006 New Orleans Jazz &
Heritage Festival displayed ample evidence of the George Wein Factor
at work.

Which was a fact that local politicians did not fail to observe,
taking every opportunity to piggyback their insatiable need for
attention on the efforts of festivals producers and corporate
sponsors. The Lieutenant Governor of the state, Mitch Landrieu --
brother of Senator Mary Landrieu and a failed candidate for mayor in
the city?s post-Katrina election -- has been banking heavily on what
he?s been calling a Cultural Economy Initiative, on which much
attention and consultant dollars has so far been lavished, with no
discernible results.

At both Shell?s announcement of its continuing sponsorship and at a
press conference of his own -- held to ballyhoo the state?s success in
luring film production companies with discount-rate tax credits -- Lt.
Gov. Landrieu and the tourism industry that provides his support made
a strong pitch for the state?s ?return to normalcy.? The only problem
was, they invited musicians and local artists to speak at these events
as well.

At the Shell sponsorship announcement, local trumpeter and Mahogany
Brass Band leader Brice Miller told reporters, ?Last night, for the
first time since Katrina, my wife and I slept at our own house ... My
main worry now is not local politics, it?s not national politics, it?s
not the failures of FEMA, the culpability of the Army Corps of
Engineers, or the stalled Road Home program. My main worry now is
keeping the cultural traditions of New Orleans alive.?

A similar note was sounded at Landrieu?s press conference the
following weekend, as trumpeter and Spike Lee composer Terence
Blanchard railed about the lack of affordable housing that?s keeping
many New Orleans musicians -- and tens of thousands of residents --
away from home. ?I?m tired of hearing musicians saying they can?t come
home. It?s breaking my heart. Where does that happen in America??
Blanchard asked reporters.

Jason Marsalis, accomplished drummer, vibraphonist, and youngest of
the Marsalis clan, made his point even more succinctly.

?As far as I?m concerned,? he told reporters, ?housing is the issue.?

A Problem with No Hope of Solution

And therein lies the central conflict at the heart of New Orleans?
Jazz & Heritage Festival: Who, in fact, does Jazz Fest benefit? And to
what extent is it not benefiting those it should? Moreover, what
responsibility does it have to the culture that makes it possible, and
to the city that has provided the incubator for that culture for more
than 200 years? If we were in one of the country?s top-tier business
schools, we might be holding this discussion under the banner of the
latest passion to inspire students and spark academic debate:
corporate social responsibility.

But that debate has so far failed to reach the slippery shores of the
media industry -- remaining, instead, fixated on environmental
concerns, third-world economic development, and supply-chain
integrity. In one way or another, critical discussion of nearly every
aspect of the entertainment and media industries locally, nationally,
or internationally, remains non-existent (unless, of course, the FCC
is hammering a coffin-nail into yet another aspect of communication
diversity or some high-paid celebrity shock-jock just got himself more
attention that he bargained for).

There?s no question the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival is a
remarkable event and, for two weeks, provides the context for a
musical state-of-being that is close to sublime. And there?s likely no
one who would ever argue against the festival?s continued existence.
But the 2007 version of the festival brought into stark contrast the
multiple hypocrisies, conflicts, and discrepancies that remain at the
core of its current direction and management, disabling ailments its
largely shares with the U.S. entertainment industry as a whole and
with the crippled state of critical debate in the United States of
Generica today.

What?s most notable about New Orleans? Jazz & Heritage Festival, in
fact, is the lack of critical discussion. Almost any compliant about
the event?s massive size, impersonal experience, or incoherent
programming is dismissed in both informal and formal conversation as
largely irrelevant. Why? Mostly because in the media-drenched
environment in which we live, we?ve made individual accommodations to
provide ourselves with what we want or what we need. Any outstanding
failure to do so is summarily dismissed, in this age of Darwinian
economic survival, as the failure of the individual to adapt.

On a larger scale -- never mind that the means to carry on a debate is
mainly controlled by the interests we want to discuss -- is the fact
that we remain almost completely naive about questions of culture,
what purpose it serves, where it comes from, how it?s produced, what
it accomplishes. On the extreme right, the debate?s been monopolized
-- and therefore stigmatized -- by religious zealots, that
sanctimonious and hypocritical faction proposing the corruption of
blacks, Jews, gays, and all other ?multi-culturalists? has weakened
our vital cultural juices and brought on a much-deserved attacks by
competing religious zealots.

The Second Reconstruction of New Orleans

In the case of New Orleans? Jazz Fest, for example, we never ask if
there might another way to run the show. And once again, the Wein
Factor plays a deciding role.

?The direction jazz festivals have taken,? Wein told Billboard in
2000, ?started the night [in 1958] we booked Chuck Berry to play with
the Count Basie band ... You go to festivals all over Europe [today]
and you hear all kinds of music. Without that variety, there wouldn?t
be jazz festivals. A festival doesn?t exist without people. And even
though something may be non-profit, it doesn?t mean there are
limitless funds to keep it going. The necessity to maintain a level of
bottom-line success is always there.?

But what George Wein did not tell Billboard is that he?s purposely
distorting the story to benefit his own version of things and his own
self-interest. In fact, the idea of a concert event featuring
generations of American popular musicians was born in 1937 and 1938
with the series of Spirituals to Swing concerts organized by legendary
music produced John Hammond that were held in New York?s vaunted
Carnegie Hall. Hammond?s idea was to bring Robert Johnson and Bessie
Smith up north to play with popular swing bands.

Both blues legends died before showtime (they were replaced by Big
Bill Broonzy and Ida Cox), but the Spirituals to Swing line-up still
represented an impressive overview of the variety of roots and
commercial music emerging from and connected to local forms of popular
culture, offering performances by The Golden Gate Quartet, Mitchell?s
Christian Singers, Sister Rosetta Tharpe, Sonny Terry, Joe Turner,
Albert Ammons, James P. Johnson, Meade Lux Lewis, Helen Humes, Lester
Young, Jimmy Rushing, Sidney Bechet, Buck Clayton, Hot Lips Page, the
Benny Goodman Sextet (featuring Charlie Christian), and the Count
Basie Orchestra.

And, in fact, George Wein did not bring the Newport Jazz Festival to
New Orleans, where it was reborn with incredible success as the New
Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival. Instead, he borrowed from the
Newport Folk Festival, which began in the early 1960s and featured
daytime performances, a craft fair, and food booths -- the whole
creating a sense of condensed, temporary community. In fact, the
Newport Jazz Festival was non-profit, and run by a board of directors
of musicians and scholars with performers all paid minimum wage, from
Bob Dylan to the first Cajun band ever to play outside Louisiana.

There was one other aspect of New Orleans? Jazz Fest this year that
also seemed notable -- the presence of political protesters handing
out buttons by the Festival gates and flying banners from the
commercial planes circling the festival grounds, both reading: ?No War
for Shell, No Blood for Shell.? That note seemed to square firmly with
the increasing presence of grassroots organizers lending their
passion, time, and experience to the causes of the hundreds of
thousands of New Orleans residents -- mostly black, mostly Democratic
voters -- removed from the city by the federal government and now left
stranded in locations throughout the country.

But post-Katrina New Orleans raises not only questions of racism and
economic exploitation in the U.S., it also poses the central conflict
raised by global corporate expansion: Can the city be rebuilt with its
local culture intact, or will it be rebuilt at the expense of, all the
while profiting from, that local culture? What if the city?s upper and
middle class neighborhoods are restored and tourism -- based on images
and forced replications of local culture -- succeeds like never
before? In that light, the 2007 New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival
may not be the resounding success its organizers claim.

It may, in fact, be a harbinger of the death of New Orleans.

[Zydekitten]

Just curious - what publication is this article from?

[bywterbro]

i get it as part of an e newsletter....i googled the author, and the best
i can make out hes a professor of History at UC Berkely grad school....

[mluke66]

Excellent piece. I've been saying for months that local musicians don't get paid enough, but anything critical of the fest is always quickly swept under the rug.

I hope somebody is paying attention.

[bywterbro]

I think its an important article....I dont happen to agree with the last sentence/supposition......i think new orleans culture and music is so
strong that it will prevail....in fact new orleans is what makes jazzfest so unique,
not the other way around....
but there some excellent observation on the commercialization of fest...
interesting note, not mentioned in this article...
quint davis got an award at the gambit best of new orleans awards show..
not one person (it was mainly musicians) clapped...he got off the stage so
fast it wasnt funny...all other award recipients got real nice applause..



Excellent piece. I've been saying for months that local musicians don't get paid enough, but anything critical of the fest is always quickly swept under the rug.

I hope somebody is paying attention.

[McGregor]

It's like Bill Graham, the SF promoter said, if you don't like the way I do it, do it yourself and do it better! Otherwise, pipe down!

Sounds like a bunch unnecessary whining to me by the author.

Jazz Fest is not responsible for rebuilding new orleans.

But the 2007 version of the festival brought into stark contrast the
multiple hypocrisies, conflicts, and discrepancies that remain at the
core of its current direction and management, disabling ailments its
largely shares with the U.S. entertainment industry as a whole and
with the crippled state of critical debate in the United States of
Generica today.
If by that bunch of fuey, he means it rocks, then I'm with him! :D

[bywterbro]

It's like Bill Graham, the SF promoter said, if you don't like the way I do it, do it yourself and do it better! Otherwise, pipe down!

Sounds like a bunch unnecessary whining to me by the author.

Jazz Fest is not responsible for rebuilding new orleans.


If by that bunch of fuey, he means it rocks, then I'm with him! :D

so McGregor are you saying the author has no right to voice his opinion if
hes not going to take over the fest and run it?....
the author quoted several important musicians in new orleans whose opinion
was that the most important issue for the community was housing...
they spoke at a conference held at the fairgrounds during jazzfest...

[McGregor]

so McGregor are you saying the author has no right to voice his opinion if
hes not going to take over the fest and run it?....
the author quoted several important musicians in new orleans whose opinion
was that the most important issue for the community was housing...
they spoke at a conference held at the fairgrounds during jazzfest...

No everyone has a right to voice their opinion. I just don't know where he's going with it.

I have a problem with him calling out people who do make money on the fest (or have in the past) and he seems to do that with Wein. I don't really understand where he's going with that, do you?
In the end, Wein?s financial profile resembles that of no jazz critic
who ever lived and very few musicians, with substantial proceeds in
his pocket from the recent sale of his company in to Festival Network
LLC, a newly formed partnership between music producers Shoreline
Media and marketing experts Constellation Brands; his reputation
ensured by a self-funded, full-length biography; several homes around
the world, including a large country chateau in France; a substantial
collection of African American art; and an endowed chair in his and
his late wife?s names (the George and Joyce Wein Chair in African
American Studies) at hometown alma mater Boston University (minimum
tab: $1 million).
Why would anyone care about Wein's financial profile? It's none of my business. Good for him.

The article to me jumps from subject to subject so quick I'm not sure what point he is trying to make; wetlands? can anyone really argue against the corporate sponsorship? It's not ideal but from what I understand, very necessary and wasn't intrusive to my experience at all. A little red shell on the top of the stage? oh the horrors!

As for the housing issue, everyone should agree that we should do everything we can in order to get the people who want to move back to N.O. back to N.O. but I don't think it's fair to lay that huge issue off on the Festival itself; as a matter of fact he mentions the issue and then never really discusses it again.

I think he smoked one before he started this last paragraph.
What?s most notable about New Orleans? Jazz & Heritage Festival, in fact, is the lack of critical discussion. Almost any compliant about
the event?s massive size, impersonal experience, or incoherent
programming is dismissed in both informal and formal conversation as
largely irrelevant.
We needs to come visit this lovely board more. I know of quite a few other boards as well that discuss jazz fest pretty extensively. Who's complaining about size? incoherent programing?

I guess I'm saying I don't disagree with all of the article and I don't think it was written very well. We must remember, nothing is perfect but I think this fest gets pretty close. I would say it's a huge success and this certainly doesn't paint that picture.

[aardy90210]

since this was only my 6th fest i cant really speak to a noncommercial fest, but i do know that a lot of my local friends in NOLA are starting to get a little perturbed by the high ticket prices when they could give two sh!ts about seeing rod stewart...in this respect i can see what the author of this article is talking about when he says, "You have to be big to compete. Never mind, of course, that the bigger the festival is, the bigger the production fee is and, therefore, the bigger the profit is for the festival's producers."

its good food for thought.

[McGregor]

Are the ticket prices really high though for that type of event? I feel like I pay $40 after fees to see most any show now unless it's at a bar.

I didn't go see any of the big name acts but more power to the people who did and had fun.

For us younger fest-goers, how different is it really now than in 1980? I'm interested to know.

[bywterbro]

well he did spell the world complaint incorrectly....and we on this board
have discussed some of these issues in depth...commercialization, etc..
some people this year heavily complained about the corporate sponsors
encroaching too much on the dance area at fais do do....which i agree with..
and weve vehemently complained about the beer monopoly...especially
with a local beer as good as Abita its really a crime.....
In general the article seems to me to be a historical perspective...and it is pretty long and veers off now and then....and i got the impression he loved fest,but was not afraid to criticize it...
and if Wein capitalized on a good idea, more power to him...
the jazz and heritage society does alot of good things in the community most
people outside of new orleans dont know about, and alot of people even
in the city dont know about...so i do believe jazzfest has a certain
responsibility to the local community....it wouldnt be close to the same
fest anywhere else in the world...just think about the amount of local
participation that cant be found anywhere....umpteen food booths with monica, etouffe, etc.....
injuns, 2nd line parades.....and the local musicians,brass bands, trad. jazz bands, cajun bands, zydeco bans ...and then all the night shows in the all the funky clubs,
just take those things away from fest and see what you have....

these things need to be discussed to help fest to improve...

[Headless Hornman]

I'll admit that I only skimmed the article, but what does this have to do with anything?

...Quint Davis, son of the town's leading Jewish architect

[mluke66]

I said it many of times, I think the fest prices out most locals. If you look at the local economy the local just is not in the cards. I hear more and more people tell me reasons they aren't going each year. Add to that, the inclusion of high dollar things such as the Big Chief experience, using TicketMaster to further gouge customers, and the fest has changed a lot, a whole lot. And lot of people have made ton off of it, but not many local musicians, who are the reason that it works.

Ticket prices have gone up 100 percent in 5 or 6 years, yet local musicians continue to get ripped off, while big acts get their dough. I'll wager that prices go up again this year too. Something is not right in this equation.

I used to go everyday, but I had to cut back. If prices keep going up, I'll just stop and go French Quarter Fest. Or i'll just go to the local clubs. That way the money goes into the hands of those I cherish in New Orleans, the musicians, not others I'd rather not name.

[bywterbro]

I agree HH, hes borderline anti semitic....he also mentions George Weins religious
background (Jewish), yet never mentions anyone elses in the article...not cool..

[McGregor]

So what would a local band for example like the Radiators, DDBB get for playing a set at the Fest? anyone have any idea?

[Cleophus]

That is definitely an intense article. Thank you for posting it -- I know we won't all agree with it, but it brings up some important points for discussion, IMO.

What newsletter/publication is it from, if I may ask? I think it would be helpful to know who the author's intended/presumed audience is. (It might also clarify why he points out Wein's and Davis' Jewish roots.)

[bywterbro]

no problem cleo....
i get it as part of an e newsletter....i googled the author, and the best
i can make out hes a professor of History at UC Berkely grad school....
he did alot of research, so i give him credit for that..
and i have no clue on how much bands get paid....but if we want to look at
that issue of what locals make....lets look at local bands that play in the
smaller stages....economy hall, lagniappe,heritage, etc.....and those stages are
filled with local bands....and i read alot of threads this year that alot
of yall hung in those smaller stages....i have a feeling those bands
are not getting paid all that great...

[breambob]

For us younger fest-goers, how different is it really now than in 1980? I'm interested to know.

The difference is big. I don't know for sure, but I'd say that 40,000 at JF in '80 was a big crowd. I'm remembering the 1st 1st Friday !!! Attendance was 12,000, a big day back then. All stages and tents were on the infield. It was a much more intimate fest way back when. But appeals to nostalgia are really a non-sequiter. But I would love an Abita draft at JF, or even a Schlitz, but...

As for the money, power, impact and all else that is involved these days, IJDM. Keep it coming, Quint.

I thought this was a fairly well done article, but he's all over the place, I'm not really sure he made any good points against the corps, but it did reveal things we (I) didn't know.

Don't know anything about Roger Hahn, but I don't think he "gets it."

[bywterbro]

i still love the fest alot...but you asked about differences....

well the night shows were amazing...organized by jazzfest
could be Santana and the Allmans together....
or Zach Richard with Dr. John, and Little Feat...
amazing night time shows......
not saying the night time shows these days arent good....just different

i also...lol...was alot younger....lol....alot younger...

[Cleophus]

While I find this article to be cynical and I disagree with many of the writer's points, it did make some points that resonated with me:

*His description of the 1960 Newport Jazz Festival echoes my continued concerns about the size of NOJHF's crowds and possibly its ever-whiter, more-upscale clientele: "while crowds became a serious problem - appealing to an upper-class clientele, Wein attracted rowdy Ivy league frat boys who took advantage of the occasion by getting roaring drunk and rioting in the streets, where they hurled racist epithets and busted storefront windows." (One of the first things that came to mind was: Dave Matthews Day, and how lucky the Fest was to avoid any incidents that day.)

*"focusing almost exclusively on increasing audience size."

*"Today, in fact, corporate sponsorship in general is perceived as the only reason the festival exists at all and corporate logos, hospitality tents, bandstand spiels, and logoed polo shirts abound all over the festival grounds." Quint's insistence, onstage during the Fest, that the only reason that there is a Fest is because of Shell, really turns me off. (Not negating Shell's contribution, but why -- unintentionally perhaps -- insult the musicians, fans, cooks, artists, etc., who make the Fest happen?) And the "hospitality tents" (including the closing of the Grandstand) turn me off even more!

*"You have to be big to compete. Never mind, of course, that the bigger the festival is, the bigger the production fee is and, therefore, the bigger the profit is for the festival's producers.
"'You can have all the Rod Stewarts you want,' Jazz Fest's noblesse-oblige director Quint Davis, son of the town's leading Jewish architect and director of the festival since its inception, told reporters. 'If you get rained out, you could lose millions.' Never mind either, of course, that hiring Rod Stewart in the first place is what put all those millions on the line.
....
"Half a century later, jazz historian John Gennari described this circling web of logical deception for what it is: 'Unable to see how his own growth-oriented policy contributed to setting the trap he now found himself in, Wein complained that his increasing overhead costs (for publicity, staff, year-round organizational work) made it necessary for him to tilt programming toward recognizable stars.'"
(Other than the questionable inclusion of Davis' heritage, I am in agreement with these paragraphs.)

*"The Festival's 25-member nonprofit board (who named themselves members-for-life about a decade ago)...." I have no basis for this feeling, but in the last few years I've wondered more about the board's role and its 'benefits'. Even if there is no corruption going on, for example the deal with AEG (which may have been justifiable after the rain-out a couple of years ago) makes me wonder how big a cut of $ AEG gets, and whether MUCH more revenue than usual must be generated in order to pay AEG its share while there is less $ to carry out the Foundation's mission (as the material on still-homeless/expatriated musicians speaks to). Again, this speaks to the spiral of needing more $ --> hiring bigger acts --> having to pay them --> needing more $ --> etc.

*"Can the city be rebuilt with its local culture intact, or will it be rebuilt at the expense of, all the while profiting from, that local culture? What if the city's upper and middle class neighborhoods are restored and tourism -- based on images and forced replications of local culture -- succeeds like never before? In that light, the 2007 New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival
may not be the resounding success its organizers claim.
"It may, in fact, be a harbinger of the death of New Orleans."

Yes indeed! Proposed Starbuck's in Jackson Square. Latest demographics of N.O. population showing an ever-wealthier population, even than pre-K. I worry about stuff like this.

Sorry for the rant!

[Frosty]

since this was only my 6th fest i cant really speak to a noncommercial fest, but i do know that a lot of my local friends in NOLA are starting to get a little perturbed by the high ticket prices when they could give two sh!ts about seeing rod stewart...in this respect i can see what the author of this article is talking about when he says, "You have to be big to compete. Never mind, of course, that the bigger the festival is, the bigger the production fee is and, therefore, the bigger the profit is for the festival's producers."

its good food for thought.

High ticket prices? It's $75 for Steve Miller at Ravinia. That's Steve Miller, period. I got much more than one act for little more than half of that at Jazz Fest. Also, Sonny Landreth played at the same time as Rod Stewart so why was Rod Stewart even on their radar if they didn't give two sh!ts for him?

[chrisjoseph]

Given everything that has gone on in New Orleans, and given everything that needs to be done, I'm grateful that there is still a Jazzfest. I know I'm speaking for many, many people....Jazzfest ain't perfect, but what is? It's still a great bargain (everything has gone up in price, not just Jazzfest). It exposed me to a people, a culture, the music, that I've never seen or heard anywhere else. And it also helped create some "ambassadors" (like the Threadheads) that have helped spread the word not only about Jazzfest, but about how much help the region needs.

It's hard to comment on what the musicians get paid (or don't get paid). I don't think any of us really know. But, should a Jon Cleary or a Kermit Ruffins (as much as I love their music) get paid as much as a Van Morrison or a Bonnie Raitt? Honestly, I don't think so.

[Frosty]

I'll admit that I only skimmed the article, but what does this have to do with anything?

From its usage, I'd assume it describes a unique style of architecture, like Prairie, or Moorish, or such. Of course, I know better than that but apparently the author doesn't. Never heard of the Jewish style of architecture and I live in a heavily Jewish area.

[Zbonnie]

interesting note, not mentioned in this article...
quint davis got an award at the gambit best of new orleans awards show..
not one person (it was mainly musicians) clapped...he got off the stage so
fast it wasnt funny...all other award recipients got real nice applause..Wow, that was definitely saying something by their silence!

[Frosty]

Sooooooooooooooooooooo, maybe Cyril has a point..........................

[ibjamn]

Given everything that has gone on in New Orleans, and given everything that needs to be done, I'm grateful that there is still a Jazzfest. I know I'm speaking for many, many people....Jazzfest ain't perfect, but what is? It's still a great bargain (everything has gone up in price, not just Jazzfest). It exposed me to a people, a culture, the music, that I've never seen or heard anywhere else. And it also helped create some "ambassadors" (like the Threadheads) that have helped spread the word not only about Jazzfest, but about how much help the region needs.

It's hard to comment on what the musicians get paid (or don't get paid). I don't think any of us really know. But, should a Jon Cleary or a Kermit Ruffins (as much as I love their music) get paid as much as a Van Morrison or a Bonnie Raitt? Honestly, I don't think so.

Agreed. And said better than what I would have spouted out! ;)

[sophisticated sissy]

Thank you, bywaterbro, for posting this article. I think the writer brings up some interesting points. Also, right before I read this, I had just read a truly heartbreaking and horrifying story, so I think it is important to keep things in perspective.

I do not think the author is anti-Semitic. In fact, I do not even think the author is delving into the topic of religion when he mentions that Wein and Davis are Jewish. In the USA, to identify yourself as a Jew also speaks volumes about your cultural identity. For example, my spouse is a cultural Jew, but he is not particularly observant of the religious aspects of Judaism.

Since there are so many types and styles of synagogues, and so many other buildings designed by architects who are Jewish, it would be folly to attempt to designate one type of architecture as Jewish architecture.

In my attempt to follow the linkage of this respectable essay, I think the author mentions Davis' father being a prominent New Orleans architect due to the professional and business connections that may develop from being involved in that profession.

In our language, there is a common everyday expression that we often use. It's about not throwing the baby out with the bath water. To rebuild New Orleans, we will have to tread a fine line. Yes, we have to throw out the bath water, but we want to keep the baby. The baby, in this case, is New Orleans.

So, who owns New Orleans? The article made me ask myself the following question: Do you love Jazz Fest first, or do you love New Orleans first?

This isn't one of those "chicken vs the egg" questions. It is more like the problem presented to King Soloman. We don't need to divide and cut up New Orleans. We need to pull her back together to keep her strong and vibrant.

[stlbarb]

but the 'article' is a little long. i had to take a nap half way through. :)

it had many valid points but it rambled, it seemed to be more a draft for a coherent article, or a series of articles.

[AtPontchartrain]

And, in fact, George Wein did not bring the Newport Jazz Festival to
New Orleans, where it was reborn with incredible success as the New
Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival. Instead, he borrowed from the
Newport Folk Festival, which began in the early 1960s and featured
daytime performances, a craft fair, and food booths -- the whole
creating a sense of condensed, temporary community. In fact, the
Newport Jazz Festival was non-profit, and run by a board of directors
of musicians and scholars with performers all paid minimum wage, from
Bob Dylan to the first Cajun band ever to play outside Louisiana.

Wein never said he did bring Newport Jazz Festival to NO. He was first interested in a NO fest in the early 60's, but the segregation in the city gave him great problems, both organizational and personal. How to put on a festival that had to be integrated, and how to stay in a hotel with his wife Joyce, who was black. By '70 the city under Mayor Landrieu convinced him that it had changed.

Wein writes: ...there was a desire on the part of southern cultural establishments to join the mainstream of American art and entertainment....After Woodstock, it became clear to me that young people would no longer sit in reserved seats at an outdoor concert event. They wanted the freedom to move around and be part of what was happening. I had seen this firsthand at the Newport Folk Festival, during the afternoon workshops. My first job, then, was to convince the board of directors in New Orleans that the Newport Jazz Festival model was no longer valid. We needed a different approach to presentation and format. The festival that I envisioned for the city where jazz was born had to be unique; it had to reflect the entire spectrum of Louisiana's musical heritage...

Myself Among Others: A Live In Music, George Wein, Da Capo Press, 2003, p. 359

I'm not so sure the article's author went so far in his research as to look at this book. I get the feeling he forgets that the NO Jazz & Heritage Foundation is non-profit.

Wein states that he started the Newport Folk Festival as an offshoot of Newport Jazz. In '59 they had "folk afternoons," and for '60 he asked Al Grossman to put together the first try at an entire festival. So, to imply that the NO festival concepts came from one or other of his festivals doesn't quite have a strong meaning.

[bywterbro]

after posting this article and reading yalls comments, and thinking about it,
seems to me the author might have a little chip on his shoulder
for George Wein.......and im not sure that he really gets jazzfest,
or new orleans.......even if i do agree with him on some points....
George did fight thru segregation to make jazzfest happen...ive read
that several times, but I think the author omitted that important fact...

[Frosty]

To me the most important point brought up is the payment of non-New Olreans artists. This is what drives expenses up, substantially increasing risk while undermining the bread and butter artists of the festival. If they couldn't get the Nevilles because of price and spent half as much on Rod Stewart, that is a problem for a festival meant to promote NO music and culture. Especially since the Neville's are why people are there year after year, not Rod Stewart. And, if a Rod Stewart gets big bucks, rain or shine, there is your risk. It explains a lot when Davis talks of losing a lot of money due to weather. It's really due to booking fees.

[McGregor]

To me the most important point brought up is the payment of non-New Olreans artists. This is what drives expenses up, substantially increasing risk while undermining the bread and butter artists of the festival. If they couldn't get the Nevilles because of price and spent half as much on Rod Stewart, that is a problem for a festival meant to promote NO music and culture. Especially since the Neville's are why people are there year after year, not Rod Stewart. And, if a Rod Stewart gets big bucks, rain or shine, there is your risk. It explains a lot when Davis talks of losing a lot of money due to weather. It's really due to booking fees.

If he had stuck with that point throughout the article, he would have been on to something.

He has ADD worse than I do! :D LOL

[bluesgirl]

OK, here's my 2 cents...

I don't like worldwide corporations as sponsors of local events, HOWEVER...

I worked on a local festival in my area for years. We were constantly broke and understaffed for many of the things we wanted to do. We really wanted to have a fishing event for kids, so after many, many hours of discussion, we asked the local smiley face store to help us out. They gave us the prizes, some fishing gear, and even sent some employees to help us out at the fest, for the small price of naming the local smiley face store as the sponsor of that event.

Did I like it? No. I hate smiley face store, but no mom & pop bait & tackle store could or would give us what smiley face store could. It made me feel dirty to take stuff from a place where I don't shop if I can avoid it. But, watching the kids have a great time on the day of the event made it all worth it.

I hate having to have a corporate sponsor for JF, but could the NOJHF do it without them and still bring in a good enough crowd to be able to support the music and heritage in NOLA?

[AtPontchartrain]

I will bore y'all with one more paragraph from Wein's autobiography:

Certainly the majority of the board shared a commitment that I greatly admired. This was perhaps best exemplified in 1982, when I told them that the cigarette company Brown & Williamson (which produced KOOL cigarettes) had offered us a contract for a million dollars for name sponsorship of the festival. I felt that Brown & Williamson's offer - nearly enough money to underwrite the entire festival - was too good to refuse. this that kind of financial security, we could ensure the festival's future. The Jazz and Heritage Foundation, however, had serious objections. Given KOOL's brand name clout in the African-American community, some of our black board members felt that it would be exploitative to transform Jazz Fest into a KOOL New Orleans Jazz Festival. They turned down the offer. I might not have made this decision, but it perfectly illustrates the board's direction. My respect for our governing body escalated int the wake of that decision.

I don't know, but I suspect that whatever our concerns are about the underwriting and VIP changes at the Fest, they are also reflected on the board. These decisions cannot be easy.

[dank_bass]

My thought on the last paragraph, was "why do the culture, and uptown have to be mutually exclusive of each other", I mean I realize there is a rift, but its never been a black and white issue like that (pardon the expression, I mean black and white not in the manner of race)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for many of the other points in the article, I wish I was five years old at a baseball game with my brothers eating cotton candy, and I wish I could go get a soda for 25 cents, and I wish I could go to the drug store and get five candy bars for a dollar, but the world aint that way anymore.

Outside of the civic obligation to the city of New Orleans, which would have made a much more on point article had the author taken that avenue in earnest, really the only real debate the author brings up is whether or not to have BNA's at your festival. To that end I agree its a slippery slope, many of the entities that fest features are afforded by the very same BNA's that many of us curse. They could switch to an ALL Louisiana Line Up next year, and ticket prices could be cheaper, and crowds would be smaller, and Id still be there, but you probably would have never met so many people that you now consider your friends. The way I see it you cant exactly have your cake and eat it too. its still the best festival around, in the best (if thats debatable, then let me say my favorite) city in the world!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

One more point of contention that I have is how they try to paint the festival as money hungry, doesnt the festival donate profits back to the city?

[AtPontchartrain]

During the 70's, until about '77 or '78, the festival was almost all local, and it consistently lost money. What turned it around was the beginning of the use of BNAs. The organizers insist that there is no chance the festival would survive with just the local acts and without sponsors. I don't pretend to know if this is true or not, but they are totally convinced of it.

[chrisjoseph]

Dank, well said. And, again, we don't know what the Nevilles were offered, and we don't know how much Rod Stewart made (for all we know, maybe he made less than his normal gig)...we just don't know. Few people seemed to mind that Springsteen played last year...and we don't know what he was paid, either.

[Frosty]

My thought on the last paragraph, was "why do the culture, and uptown have to be mutually exclusive of each other", I mean I realize there is a rift, but its never been a black and white issue like that (pardon the expression, I mean black and white not in the manner of race)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for many of the other points in the article, I wish I was five years old at a baseball game with my brothers eating cotton candy, and I wish I could go get a soda for 25 cents, and I wish I could go to the drug store and get five candy bars for a dollar, but the world aint that way anymore.

Outside of the civic obligation to the city of New Orleans, which would have made a much more on point article had the author taken that avenue in earnest, really the only real debate the author brings up is whether or not to have BNA's at your festival. To that end I agree its a slippery slope, many of the entities that fest features are afforded by the very same BNA's that many of us curse. They could switch to an ALL Louisiana Line Up next year, and ticket prices could be cheaper, and crowds would be smaller, and Id still be there, but you probably would have never met so many people that you now consider your friends. The way I see it you cant exactly have your cake and eat it too. its still the best festival around, in the best (if thats debatable, then let me say my favorite) city in the world!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

One more point of contention that I have is how they try to paint the festival as money hungry, doesnt the festival donate profits back to the city?

Well put. As I said in response early, you can avoid the BNA's and hear great local bands. I skipped out on Dave Matthews for CJ Chenier and Rod Stewart for Sonny Landreth. No brainers to me. But, the downside is you can't escape the crowds some (and I emphasize SOME) of the big names bring in. And since those folks are there for the name and not for the Fest, they tend to be the more rude, obnoxious, talk through the music sort. My wife's first trip down there was with exactly the type (who she quickly left to go off on her own) and I see them at Acura all over the place. So, there is a happy balance and being aware of the importance of maintaining that balance is crucial.

[dank_bass]

During the 70's, until about '77 or '78, the festival was almost all local, and it consistently lost money. What turned it around was the beginning of the use of BNAs. The organizers insist that there is no chance the festival would survive with just the local acts and without sponsors. I don't pretend to know if this is true or not, but they are totally convinced of it.

I believe them on that one, the concept of luring people to "accidentally see" NOLA bands when they are there to see the BNA, is pretty clever if you ask me and Im sure MANY MANY people have been turned on to new music in that manner. Without that you'd have a secret festival that sussisted strictly on word of mouth and I dont doubt it would lose money. Its like when I go see a killer band in my hometown, and only 75 people show up, its selfish to say that I enjoyed the free space, when I wish for the srtist that it was a sell out and they made more $, or when you have your favorite band, and only you know about them so you think youre all special and cool, and you go see them play in small clubs, and then they get bigger, and you dont feel like its as much "yours" any more, and then they are playing arenas, and you resent them for some reason, I think thats quite similar to the precipice that alot of peoples feelings for jazzfest are hanging on right now.

[Frosty]

Getting the right BNA's is important too. Some bring more of an open minded audience than others. On this note, I think they usually do a pretty good job.

[McGregor]

I never felt overly crowded one time at this year's fest.

I did look at the ABB crowd and decide to head to the Iguanas but that was the best decision I made all weekend.

[Amy Winette]

Agree Dank, if not for BNAs, I never would have discovered Fest, the rest of the wonderful NOLA music I now love, and all of you fine people :)

We would all keep going without BNAs, but a lot of newbies would never get the pleasure of discovering what we have (and NOLA artists and fest would lose that potential $$)

If a 20-something (like I was a decade ago when discovering fest) goes once to see a BNA, say, DMB, and falls in love with the fest, the city, and the local artists, and keeps coming back for 50 more years, AND bringing more friends and family along, that's a pretty good investment.

Not to mention the $$ spent during Fest on night shows with the local artists, CDs, restaurants and hotels AND attending the local artists' shows when they are in our neck of the woods, trying to get them bookings so they can come out to other places, attending other fests b/c they'll be playing . . .

[McGregor]

http://starling.rinet.ru/music/sleeves/zap_rod.jpg
Why do you guys hate me?


sorry, I couldn't help it! :p

[Amy Winette]

I believe them on that one, the concept of luring people to "accidentally see" NOLA bands when they are there to see the BNA, is pretty clever if you ask me and Im sure MANY MANY people have been turned on to new music in that manner. Without that you'd have a secret festival that sussisted strictly on word of mouth and I dont doubt it would lose money. Its like when I go see a killer band in my hometown, and only 75 people show up, its selfish to say that I enjoyed the free space, when I wish for the srtist that it was a sell out and they made more $, or when you have your favorite band, and only you know about them so you think youre all special and cool, and you go see them play in small clubs, and then they get bigger, and you dont feel like its as much "yours" any more, and then they are playing arenas, and you resent them for some reason, I think thats quite similar to the precipice that alot of peoples feelings for jazzfest are hanging on right now.

I think that's EXACTLY right Dank!! No matter how much we want it to be, it's not *our* festival, we're just some of the lucky fans who get to attend.

[ibjamn]

http://starling.rinet.ru/music/sleeves/zap_rod.jpg
Why do you guys hate me?


sorry, I couldn't help it! :p

As a local and lover of our local culture & music, I love hearing local music at fest, especially the surprise "supergroups" that pop up, but honestly, I can see them throughout the year too. Highlights for me this year were Rod Stewart, Bonnie Raitt & ABB!

[Frosty]

And as we critique (not criticize) the Fest, I think I should still say, it truly was a wonderful Fest and the organizers deserve our praise.

[Amy Winette]

And as we critique (not criticize) the Fest, I think I should still say, it truly was a wonderful Fest and the organizers deserve our praise.

Hear hear Frosty!

[McGregor]

And as we critique (not criticize) the Fest, I think I should still say, it truly was a wonderful Fest and the organizers deserve our praise.

No doubt!!!

It was right up there with the greatest 4 consecutive days of music I've had in my life and that means alot to me.

[bywterbro]

YYR

[Michelino]

....should a Jon Cleary or a Kermit Ruffins (as much as I love their music) get paid as much as a Van Morrison or a Bonnie Raitt? Honestly, I don't think so.

Based on talent and long term cultural impact...I emphatically think that they should be paid equally.

But if it is only bubble gum you are talking about, and especially if well chewed, decades old and dried out on the bedpost...I guess maybe not.

[ozzie]

I remember how scared we all were thinking that there might not be a Jazz Fest 06, and then the joy when the announcement was made. I remember the amazement we felt that the fairgrounds were pulled into shape (just) in time for Fest, and then the joy when we were there. Couldn't have happened if it wasn't for the big guys... sponsors and acts. Maybe the big sponsors want the big acts, or maybe the big acts need the big sponsors... it seems to me that certainly for that first one after the storm, Jazz Fest needed them both.

[AtPontchartrain]

I remember how scared we all were thinking that there might not be a Jazz Fest 06, and then the joy when the announcement was made. I remember the amazement we felt that the fairgrounds were pulled into shape (just) in time for Fest, and then the joy when we were there. Couldn't have happened if it wasn't for the big guys... sponsors and acts. Maybe the big sponsors want the big acts, or maybe the big acts need the big sponsors... it seems to me that certainly for that first one after the storm, Jazz Fest needed them both.

So many writers took that Sugar Bowl at the end of that year to be the sign that N.O. could turn around, but really the Jazzfest had already sent that message, and the reopening of the Dome (funny, in that it was originally designed by Quint's father) just confirmed the message.

[bywterbro]

and a very succesful but controversial mardi gras 2 months prior to
fest 06.......it draws clost to million people....all privately sponsored..
in fact nagin floated an idea about having one large sponsor and having
it nationally televised....the city even hired a private consulting firm
to make this happen.......it never happened.....yet mg was still
succesful in 2/06....only a few months after the levees broke...

[mluke66]

Can bookmark this debate for next year when they raise ticket prices by another 5 bucks?

[bywterbro]

Can bookmark this debate for next year when they raise ticket prices by another 5 bucks?
well the fest folks made a public statement that next year they will have
reduced tix prices for early purchases....let see...i hope so...
ok heres a commentary on that article by someone who claims to have
worked at jazzfest, altho he doesnt give his name...

We all know plenty is wrong with Jazzfest. No one from New Orleans
would say otherwise. But it is those who misrepresent history and then
build on such misrepresentations that truly bastardize (the city's)
musical integrity and/or history. (Don Jamison would be horrified by
Hahn's 'article' based on so many lies.)

Hahn's 'article' does holds some water...more within his personal
opinions rather than the items that support them... but besides being
anti semitic (which he will surely say he isn't), this guy also has
facts wrong, in some cases.

Just a few glaring examples...

1 "...Newport Jazz Festival...put Duke Ellington on the cover of TIME
magazine..."

Reference: 'Beyond Category' by John Edward Hasse.

Not really true, though a common misconception. The cover and
subsequent story (published August 20, 1956) were put together in two
phases. In April of that year, TIME's music editor, Carter Harman, went
to Las Vegas to tape the interview used in the story. Then, after the
SATURDAY REVIEW ran a story in May of '56 on Duke, Ellington publicist
Joe Morgen urged TIME to run their soon-to-be article as a cover
feature. Editors said OK, and the cover photo was taken in San
Francisco by Pete Hurd some time in June of that year. It is a common
misconception that the Duke Ellington Band's performance that year at
NEwport - July 7th, 1956 - was what put Duke on the cover of TIME,
especially since the article had touched on the details of that night's
Rhode Island romp. The TIME article/cover only slingshot the huge
impact that his band's performance earned and can only be seen as
'coincidental' in its historical timing.

This claim isn't really germane to the article's thrust, but is wrong
none the less.

2 " In the end (of the '06 fest), a ragged but thrilling event was
pulled off, with the
closing notes sounded not by...scheduled closer Fats Domino (paralyzed
once again by chronic stage fright)..."

The documented reason Fats missed the end of 2006's Jazzfest (MSNBC,
TIME-PICAYUNNE, USA TODAY) was due to undisclosed illness. If this guy
knows otherwise, he should state his sources. Fats was taken, by
ambulance, to the hospital the afternoon of that last Sunday in '06 when
he was to perform. "He wasn't feeling well, so we took him to the
doctor," said longtime friend Haydee Ellis was quoted as saying after
the jazzfest cancellation. Additionally, in the week prior to his
scheduled performance, Fats was to sign autographs to promote his latest
album (Alive and Kickin'), but he had to cancel that, too. Was he also
paralyzed by his chronic stage fright enough to miss the autograph
session, or was he actually ill in some way both times, within a week of
each other? Hmmm...if he had such chronic stage fright, then why did he
go in front of all of those fans at the ACURA stage that vaunted Sunday
to wish them well and apologize for canceling his set?

Why does this guy build an argument by misrepresenting the facts about
Fats?

3 " The event featured an exclusive performance by Al Jarreau, as well
as
a big-name tribute from Jimmy Buffet to big-name festival friend (and
late 60 Minutes superstar) Ed Bradley, and a check presentation to
big-name Habitat for Humanity's brandstanding Musicians' Village
project, sponsored by big New Orleans names Branford Marsalis and
Harry Connick, Jr."

Another type of misrepresentation wrought throughout the piece, this
isn't as factually incorrect as it is callous and shortsighted,
especially if you care about musicians and their plights in trying to
reestablish their lives back in New Orleans (let alone dragging a true
friend of the city, Ed Bradley, into it all for name-dropping effect).
The project by multiple members of the Marsalis family (not just
Branford) and Connick, Jr. is noble and needs money desperately, money
which isn't being ponied up from Gov't sources...it's coming from big
businesses who care enough to help. The Marsalis family and Connick,
Jr. know how to raise funds, obviously, and who cares where the money
for the new housing comes from? The Marsalis/Connick project is one of
the only concerted efforts to relocate masses into the ninth ward, and
it is making headway when so many other resources are making promises
only, not available housing with hugely discounted rents. Is Hahn
insinuating that this is another problem for the city by the way he says
it all? Sounds like it. And the word BRANDSTANDING means nothing,
especially when the corporations that are putting money into the project
aren't requiring their brands to be within the public eye at the
project's site. C'mon, guy, do you really care about helping anyone if
you're attacking Habitat for Humanity?

To even go into the ending statement about how the 2007 fest "... in
fact, [may] be a harbinger of the death of New Orleans..." isn't worth
the time it takes to fully dispute that insinuation. Many a huge flood
couldn't up heave the spirit of the city and its inhabitants, so how/why
would the inequities/inconsistencies/improprieties of sponsorship during
Jazzfest "kill" New Orleans? This guy doesn't sound like he knows the
true fabric of the people's will down here...survival of the city and
its culture - even up against those massive corporations - isn't in
question for the tens of thousands who already have proven this
sentiment wrong.

In the end, those of us who live(d) in New Orleans for years know that
Jazzfest sold its soul years ago (duh...really, is that even news?). We
also all know how the Jazz and Heritage Foundation treats local
musicians like dirt and builds themselves up on those musicians (and the
city's) reputation while they hire huge names to take the local's
spot(s)...again, nothing new to locals. But these days, corporate
sponsors and attempts to attract as many people as possible actually
help the city by bringing in BIG, desperately needed money via the
visitors that come to see WHOEVER they feel are the most worthy artists.
Sure, having only local artists would be great, but we all know this
wouldn't bring in the kinds of crowds/monies that are needed by hotels,
restaurants, live venues and thousands of locals to make a living by
working at such places to survive (...like in the quarter, some
businesses earn enough profit during fest and mardi gras to offset their
losses from the other 10 months; without a big Jazzfest crowd, many
would conceivably go under).

We do have a festival now that features only local artists, and it is
held just weeks before the annual events at the fairgrounds...FRENCH
QUARTER FESTIVAL. Ask some FQ businesses if that event - held right
outside their doors - has the same financial boon as Jazzfest. It
doesn't. Factor in the lack of corporate presence that the state (let
alone the city) misses in taxes, and you see why there are much bigger
issues concerning big business and how it impacts the city than the
trivial sponsorships at Jazzfest just this past year.

If Jazzfest is pulled off without people dying, without a terrorist
attack, without a riot, without racial strife, and without the
cancellation of multiple days due to rain, it is a success...especially
for a city that has recently been under multiple feet of water and has
its inhabitants struggling daily just to make ends meet. What a great
event, regardless of its flaws...none of the flaws (and he didn't even
point out the worst ones) overturn this fact. Kudos for those who truly
struggle to put it on and make sure it keeps going...as someone who
worked there and saw the inner workings, I can confirm it is operated
and run by caring locals, not corporate bigwigs who are on power trips.

Jazzfest is good as long as it happens. Period.

[Michelino]

I remember how scared we all were thinking that there might not be a Jazz Fest 06, and then the joy when the announcement was made. I remember the amazement we felt that the fairgrounds were pulled into shape (just) in time for Fest, and then the joy when we were there. Couldn't have happened if it wasn't for the big guys... sponsors and acts. Maybe the big sponsors want the big acts, or maybe the big acts need the big sponsors... it seems to me that certainly for that first one after the storm, Jazz Fest needed them both.

I remember that fear myself....it went as deep into my soul as any other that I've had.

Guess if that what it takes, I am suddenly now for the BNAs.....but if I pass the gates and find a "Walmart American Idol Stage" right next to the "Home Depot Very Big One Shot Wonder Tent"..don't know what I'll do...course if there is still a Jazz Tent, a Fais Do Do Stage, Economy Hall, Gospel Tent, Jazz and Heritage Stage, Lagniappe Stage, and most of Congo Square...and all that good food...(and contemporary crafts (http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i193/Michelino/Misc/GeauxRoseCraft.gif))...I'll probably still think..."Ah...I'm home"

[AtPontchartrain]

I remember that fear myself....it went as deep into my soul as any other that I've had.

Guess if that what it takes, I am suddenly now for the BNAs.....but if I pass the gates and find a "Walmart American Idol Stage" right next to the "Home Depot Very Big One Shot Wonder Tent"..don't know what I'll do...course if there is still a Jazz Tent, a Fais Do Do Stage, Economy Hall, Gospel Tent, Jazz and Heritage Stage, Lagniappe Stage, and most of Congo Square...and all that good food...(and contemporary crafts (http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i193/Michelino/Misc/GeauxRoseCraft.gif))...I'll probably still think..."Ah...I'm home"

Okay, as long as they don't bring in Dale Chihuly or some idiot from Venice to compete with Rosetree!

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i193/Michelino/Misc/GeauxRoseCraft.gif

[rosetree]

Okay, as long as they don't bring in Dale Chihuly or some idiot from Venice to compete with Rosetree!

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i193/Michelino/Misc/GeauxRoseCraft.gif

AtP and Mich----you made me laugh out loud today!!!!! Thanks for looking out for me!
;) :D :D

[ohio]

Getting the right BNA's is important too. Some bring more of an open minded audience than others. On this note, I think they usually do a pretty good job.I think that's a very good point, and yyr!

[ohio]

I never felt overly crowded one time at this year's fest.

I did look at the ABB crowd and decide to head to the Iguanas but that was the best decision I made all weekend.Unfortunately, I did. And I did in '06 as well. I fear the future in terms of crowd size. Maybe it's a function of age, I don't know. I did see less older faces, less younger faces, less black faces.

[ohio]

Agree Dank, if not for BNAs, I never would have discovered Fest, the rest of the wonderful NOLA music I now love, and all of you fine people :)

We would all keep going without BNAs, but a lot of newbies would never get the pleasure of discovering what we have (and NOLA artists and fest would lose that potential $$)

If a 20-something (like I was a decade ago when discovering fest) goes once to see a BNA, say, DMB, and falls in love with the fest, the city, and the local artists, and keeps coming back for 50 more years, AND bringing more friends and family along, that's a pretty good investment.

Not to mention the $$ spent during Fest on night shows with the local artists, CDs, restaurants and hotels AND attending the local artists' shows when they are in our neck of the woods, trying to get them bookings so they can come out to other places, attending other fests b/c they'll be playing . . .YYR, it's a good investment. But at what point are there too many BNA's, squezzing out the local musicians. I think the ratio in the 80's was better- a few big draw acts go a long way.

[ohio]

Do any of you really think Rod brought so many people to fest that it was worth the reported money he was paid? I think that in itself is the yardstick to be used.

[bywterbro]

a few musician friends of mine told me about a new clause in the contract
that basicallly kept any BNAs from performing in clubs in new orleans during
jazzfest...and if you think about it this year i believe thats exactly what
happened...at first i didnt like the idea.....but then i thought it might protect
the local musicians during jazzfest...i have very mixed feelings about this...
any opinions?

[sophisticated sissy]

http://starling.rinet.ru/music/sleeves/zap_rod.jpg
Why do you guys hate me?


p

Because: a.) you're a sellout who got big by riding the coattails of others.

b.) you think you can sing like Frank Sinatra, but you can't.

c.) the only other dinosaur who is more overexposed is Barney.

d.) you ain't purple.

e.) maybe it has something to do with your plastic surgery?

f.) Mostly for ripping off the intro to J. Garcia's "Sugaree"
and using it on that lameass "Tonite's The Nite."

e.) All of the above.


:D

[sophisticated sissy]

Do any of you really think Rod brought so many people to fest that it was worth the reported money he was paid? I think that in itself is the yardstick to be used.


I think it should be used on Rod's derriere! The same things being said about him could also be said about Cher or Dolly Parton. I guess they could all swap wigs before shows...hmmm;)

[rosetree]

Because: a.) you're a sellout who got big by riding the coattails of others.

b.) you think you can sing like Frank Sinatra, but you can't.

c.) the only other dinosaur who is more overexposed is Barney.

d.) you ain't purple.

e.) maybe it has something to do with your plastic surgery?

f.) Mostly for ripping off the intro to J. Garcia's "Sugaree"
and using it on that lameass "Tonite's The Nite."

e.) All of the above.


:D

Sissy: tell us what you really feel!!!

BTW are you telling me that his schnozz was fixed!?:eek:

[sophisticated sissy]

If it wasn't, it'd be saying hello to his chin by now! :D

[McGregor]

Unfortunately, I did. And I did in '06 as well. I fear the future in terms of crowd size. Maybe it's a function of age, I don't know. I did see less older faces, less younger faces, less black faces.

To be fair, I sort of went out of my way to not see the BNA's. I had seen Steely D. and enjoyed the show but didn't need to see them again. I've seen the Allmans probably 30 times but love the Iguanas so we eased over there (played my mom's wedding taboot, whoot! Talking about fun? wow!) and the Friday BNA's I missed because of rain. We actually stayed all day in the rain but left at about 5pm to get back home and re-group before the night time shows. As you can imagine, we were wet (master of the obvious statement, I'm king of those! :D )

Funny you mentioned less black faces. During my 3 days there at one point, I remember thinking to myself that same thing and it bothered me a bit. I guess that's where the high prices may come into play for the citizens of NO with not as much disposable income.

Unfortunately, music is expensive to see when you factor in everything involved, it can be tough. The weekend Jazz Fest if you do 3 days for people on modest incomes would be pretty tough I'd think if you took two people to all 3 days, hotel, ate and drank and saw shows at night.

I'm trying to figure out now already how to do the whole shebang next year, both weekends. I'll do what it takes because I can't imagine not ever being there. My g/f (soon to be wife) and I are seriously contemplating moving there in the next year or so. Just need to put forth some effort and find some jobs. I need to get off my ass and get started.

I don't know much about this board (except I love it and everyone seems very knowledgeable and friendly) but it would be cool maybe for us threadheads to donate some money to a fund that would allow kids or whoever couldn't otherwise go from the city maybe attend the fest. At $40 a ticket we couldn't bring that many folks but one is better than none.

How would someone go about that? I know some people on here have some experience with such things.

Thank you Sissy, funny stuff!

[sophisticated sissy]

What I carry away from this article is that I will keep my love for New Orleans and my love for Jazz Fest separate. I will always love New Orleans for sure. But the same thing cannot be said for Jazz Fest.

BNAs are okay with me as long as they are not MOR has- beens, who shall remain nameless. ;) I mean, instead of Rod S., why not bring in someone like Jack Johnson?

Which brings me to another question: If this fest were held anywhere else other than New Orleans, would you attend?
For me, the answer is no. I'd go to a Superfly fest, like Vegoose or Bonaroo. Those guys know how to put together a roster of talent.

[Chas_P]

I'm responding from the point of view as a "former virgin". We're also not yor typical virgin in that we knew about the local music scenes before attending JF. So in that sense our views may differ from the general public views of the virgins.

We did not attend because of the BNA. In fact, there was only one that we we're planning on seeing and that was Van. But for us, it was TOO BIG. It wasn't what we came to JF for.

It's a tough call on BNAs and their overall impact. My guess is that it has ruined the initial spirit of JF; but then again good things always grow beyond their intentions.

JF has reached it's maximum draw. On some of those days and some of those stages, it wasn't the fun it should have been.

I wonder what the real effect is on the local musicians. Discounting the pay differential, how much exposure did someone like Jon Cleary gain, just because people came to see another artist and fell upon him?

As for BNAs as local clubs, shoot em if they get near! The exception is if they sit in unannounced as Bonnie did at IAC (although we all knew who the surprise guest was). This is where te local scene is and heaven forbid it is ever taken away.

We did not find the corporate sponsorship too intrusive, but keep in mind we have nothing to compare it with. Will we go next year? I'd like to think so, but I don't want to attent a corporate festival, I want the NOHJF!

[McGregor]

I'd go to a Superfly fest, like Vegoose or Bonaroo. Those guys know how to put together a roster of talent.

Outside of The Police, Bonaroo doesn't do much for me this year. And outside camping in that heat will wear you down (or me, maybe not you).

I'd like to think so, but I don't want to attent a corporate festival, I want the NOHJF!
What was really different besides the VIP stands? (that didn't seem to be in my way ever. As a matter of fact, I remember thinking why play for that?)

[jolie]

Unfortunately, I did. And I did in '06 as well. I fear the future in terms of crowd size. Maybe it's a function of age, I don't know. I did see less older faces, less younger faces, less black faces.

You must not have walked near Congo Stage for closing act Jill Scott a BNA R&B/neo-soul singer. The crowd was packed thru the craft booths. Old & young black faces, freshly pressed & looking/smelling like they just came from church. These people obviously had not enjoyed the day checking out local acts. I've always enjoyed the Thursdays & Fridays when you would see groups of young students in matching shirts parading around fest. Besides the local musicians, I don't think our black communities were ever huge supporters of Jazz Fest.

[Amy Winette]

There were a lot of young people (primarily girls) of all colors at Ludacris! I definitely got the impression most of them were local high school and junior high students.

[Blitzzzzz]

"Can the city be rebuilt with its local culture intact, or will it be rebuilt at the expense of, all the while profiting from, that local culture? What if the city's upper and middle class neighborhoods are restored and tourism -- based on images and forced replications of local culture -- succeeds like never before? In that light, the 2007 New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival may not be the resounding success its organizers claim.

It may, in fact, be a harbinger of the death of New Orleans.

harbinger:
one that presages or foreshadows what is to come.

I don't think most of you get the point, here. The author is suggesting that Jazzfest's love affair with coporate money and BNAs will ultimately transform Fest into a parody of real New Orleans culture in much the same way that Dixieland bands at Harrah's and Mayor Hyatt's would be Jazz Park may yet transform New Orleans into a Disneystyle themepark with McNawlinz providing the food! Sure, for a while, the natives will be able to get jobs playing themselves, but eventually there will likely be more cooperative players willing to assume the roles and put on the costumes.:cool:

[bywterbro]

"Can the city be rebuilt with its local culture intact, or will it be rebuilt at the expense of, all the while profiting from, that local culture? What if the city's upper and middle class neighborhoods are restored and tourism -- based on images and forced replications of local culture -- succeeds like never before? In that light, the 2007 New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival may not be the resounding success its organizers claim.

It may, in fact, be a harbinger of the death of New Orleans.

harbinger:
one that presages or foreshadows what is to come.

I don't think most of you get the point, here. The author is suggesting that Jazzfest's love affair with coporate money and BNAs will ultimately transform Fest into a parody of real New Orleans culture in much the same way that Dixieland bands at Harrah's and Mayor Hyatt's would be Jazz Park may yet transform New Orleans into a Disneystyle themepark with McNawlinz providing the food! Sure, for a while, the natives will be able to get jobs playing themselves, but eventually there will likely be more cooperative players willing to assume the roles and put on the costumes.:cool:
ya know blitz anything is possible, and youve always put forth some excellent ideas on this site.....and im not sure if your suggesting this might happen,
or just explaining your interpretation of the article...either way i dont
think it will happen cuz new orleans is NOT only the french quarter...
there are so many strong neighborhoods, with their own rich cultural life...
bywater, marigny, mid city, uptown, carrolton, gentilly, lakeview,treme,algiers, etc......i dont believe they will touched by McNawlinz..
the quarter and the cbd might become more commercialized, i mean
bourbon st. is pretty bad already.....but alot of residents dont go to
those areas much anyway...i think the jazzpark if it ever happens could
be a good thing...its supposedly been very good for chicago....
but we should be aware of the starbucks, mcnawlinz possibilities, so as
to be able to speak out against it when it arises.....

[jolie]

I never felt overly crowded one time at this year's fest.

I did look at the ABB crowd and decide to head to the Iguanas but that was the best decision I made all weekend.

My post really wasn't in response to the article...it was in response to this (poorly?)
Yes I did feel overly crowded!!! At every stage!! There were major changes in Fest this year and this person really felt them. I am concerned for its future

[Blitzzzzz]

ya know blitz anything is possible, and youve always put forth some excellent ideas on this site.....and im not sure if your suggesting this might happen,
or just explaining your interpretation of the article...either way i dont
think it will happen cuz new orleans is NOT only the french quarter...
there are so many strong neighborhoods, with their own rich cultural life...
bywater, marigny, mid city, uptown, carrolton, gentilly, lakeview,treme,algiers, etc......i dont believe they will touched by McNawlinz..
the quarter and the cbd might become more commercialized, i mean
bourbon st. is pretty bad already.....but alot of residents dont go to
those areas much anyway...i think the jazzpark if it ever happens could
be a good thing...its supposedly been very good for chicago....
but we should be aware of the starbucks, mcnawlinz possibilities, so as
to be able to speak out against it when it arises.....
I don't doubt the strength of the neighborhood communities, just whether they will have a place at the table in the future.
My concern, and I think the author's point, is that the powers-that-be believe that the way forward for New Orleans is the heavily commercialized, sanitized replica of "Nawlinz." The JazzPark, for example, creates a Mall for the Hyatt and the Superdome while exploiting "Jazz" for the tourists in an area that has no music culture while the city is harrassing clubs that want to give musicians jobs and ignores the National Park Service's plans for Armstrong Park. Meanwhile, Jazz Fest hires BNAs to headline while shortchanging local acts and pushing legitmate New Orleans stars down the bill and closes off the air-conditioned Grandstand seating from the people so the Foundation bigwigs can lounge in the concourse. As Mem Shannon, the one time New Orleans cab driver sings "Wrong people in charge!":cool:

[Zydekitten]

There were a lot of young people (primarily girls) of all colors at Ludacris! I definitely got the impression most of them were local high school and junior high students.
Also, the majority of the crowd digging Stephen Marley at Congo Square was young, seemingly local and African-American. It was a great multi-culti gathering (except for the rude white dude who practically walked ON me as he pushed through to do nothing but yack on his cell phone and not even dance)!

I have been going to Fest for almost 15 years and yes, I wish they could survive without needing to call upon a huge corporate sponsor - but they can't as most music festivals of that size can't for any extended period of time (remember Bonnaroo is only a few years old y'all).

I didn't get too put out by the corporate hooha at Fest either this year or last - it's quite easy to enjoy what I've always enjoyed about Jazzfest without even really noticing the Shell/Hilton/Acura/SoCo influences.

I don't even really mind the BNAs - yes, I'm not really a Rod Stewart fan and didn't go over there, I'm also generally not a big Jimmy Buffett, Cowboy Mouth or Economy Tent fan either . . . but there's something at JF for most everyone and that is one of the things I love MOST about it!!! It's such a wondrous smorgasbord of excellent music - no matter what your taste is - how can you lose??!!!

I truly don't think that corporate help of mounting Jazzfest will lead NOLA residents to allow for the Disneyfication of New Orleans . . . yes, it's something to watch for and fight against, but they've said the same thing at times about S.F. and N.Y. (particularly about Times Square) and it hasn't really occurred yet . . . I think NOLA can stay strong and keep what makes it IT.

[Corona]

Agreed. And said better than what I would have spouted out! ;)
I'll never forget the pain in my heart those days after the storm....being convinced that there would be no JF 2006......and how it soared when I heard it was on....and then got to go. I promised myself that I would remember that time whenever I was ready to bitch about the fest. Like the city... the fest has warts. I don't pretent they're not there, I just try to focus on and appreciate the parts of her that are wart-free...that's all. That's just me though...that's kinda why I haven't read this thread until now.

[Corona]

I remember how scared we all were thinking that there might not be a Jazz Fest 06, and then the joy when the announcement was made. I remember the amazement we felt that the fairgrounds were pulled into shape (just) in time for Fest, and then the joy when we were there. Couldn't have happened if it wasn't for the big guys... sponsors and acts. Maybe the big sponsors want the big acts, or maybe the big acts need the big sponsors... it seems to me that certainly for that first one after the storm, Jazz Fest needed them both.
amen to that Ozzie....i was ready to bow down and kiss Shell's proverbial feet for that one....they saved it...sorry...we can't have it both ways. Having the screens at the stages was AMAZING this year, the bigger tents etc. It was hotter than hell and that was my biggest complaint this year....fest can't do a thing to control that. I never saw one BNA except for ABB out of both weekends. Never saw Acura once.....for me, this fest was PERFECTION. Thanks to Shell for the bail-out. Maybe one day it can stand on it's own again but not the way it is, right now. For me, that's okay though.

[Belle]

I'll never forget the pain in my heart those days after the storm....being convinced that there would be no JF 2006......and how it soared when I heard it was on....and then got to go. I promised myself that I would remember that time whenever I was ready to bitch about the fest. Like the city... the fest has warts. I don't pretent they're not there, I just try to focus on and appreciate the parts of her that are wart-free...that's all. That's just me though...that's kinda why I haven't read this thread until now.

Very well said Lady!!!

I didn't read this tread either until this AM. I sit here and wonder if I was just so happy to be able to attend this year or is it that I just wanted/needed my New Orleans fix; but this chicka had a wonderful time. Didn't see one BNA, heck most of the treads on different artists, I couldn't relate to because I was at another tent. (How about that run-on?)

Anyway since it was my first Fest, I had no expectations and was so impressed I will be back, BNA's or not.

[bywterbro]

amen to that Ozzie....i was ready to bow down and kiss Shell's proverbial feet for that one....they saved it...sorry...we can't have it both ways. Having the screens at the stages was AMAZING this year, the bigger tents etc. It was hotter than hell and that was my biggest complaint this year....fest can't do a thing to control that. I never saw one BNA except for ABB out of both weekends. Never saw Acura once.....for me, this fest was PERFECTION. Thanks to Shell for the bail-out. Maybe one day it can stand on it's own again but not the way it is, right now. For me, that's okay though.
sright....last year was a real cliffhanger......
and also lets not forget to mention all the great shell volunteers
cleaning up at fest, shoveling mud, etc....i thank them all the time...
yes it was hot, and second saturday was pretty crowded, but thats
to be expected at an outdoor fest....theres always the air conditioned
lower grandstand area to chill.....and the beer wagon right there
never seems to be 2 crowded....im real happy fest is sucesful....
the city was crowded for 2 weeks, thats great 2.....music was in the
air everywhere......and it was good to see more multi racial crowds
at congo square.....and the kids tent is always a positive place even
if just for a few minutes on any given day....gospel tent is rarely packed
except for the Mahalia tribute by Irma.....and second friday was
cool and empty.......kids and adults playin in the mud...those things
are what makes fest so special..

[Corona]

There were a lot of young people (primarily girls) of all colors at Ludacris! I definitely got the impression most of them were local high school and junior high students.
I know, that was cool to see. What a blast that was. I wish they would get more BNA's directed at younger people like that. Doesn't have to be rap..could be like Usher or something. This year's BNA's were predominantly older bands targeting a much older audience..Steely Dan, Van Morrison, Rod....except for Joss Stone and the late-added John Mayer...and of course Luda :D Hmmm, maybe it wasn't too bad of a spread.....I don't know but the crowd is predominantly 35-40 years and up (at least) and white. Would be cool if the demographics would change a bit.

[Corona]

"Can the city be rebuilt with its local culture intact, or will it be rebuilt at the expense of, all the while profiting from, that local culture? What if the city's upper and middle class neighborhoods are restored and tourism -- based on images and forced replications of local culture -- succeeds like never before? In that light, the 2007 New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival may not be the resounding success its organizers claim.

It may, in fact, be a harbinger of the death of New Orleans.

harbinger:
one that presages or foreshadows what is to come.

I don't think most of you get the point, here. The author is suggesting that Jazzfest's love affair with coporate money and BNAs will ultimately transform Fest into a parody of real New Orleans culture in much the same way that Dixieland bands at Harrah's and Mayor Hyatt's would be Jazz Park may yet transform New Orleans into a Disneystyle themepark with McNawlinz providing the food! Sure, for a while, the natives will be able to get jobs playing themselves, but eventually there will likely be more cooperative players willing to assume the roles and put on the costumes.:cool:
The only way that will happen is if the entire city becomes like that...I don't see it....the city has changed and the fest has changed since the storm but I don't see the "disneyfication" of the city that was predicted and I don't see the "disneyfication" of the fest happening either. Just my opinion....

[Corona]

sright....last year was a real cliffhanger......
and also lets not forget to mention all the great shell volunteers
cleaning up at fest, shoveling mud, etc....i thank them all the time...
yes it was hot, and second saturday was pretty crowded, but thats
to be expected at an outdoor fest....theres always the air conditioned
lower grandstand area to chill.....and the beer wagon right there
never seems to be 2 crowded....im real happy fest is sucesful....
the city was crowded for 2 weeks, thats great 2.....music was in the
air everywhere......and it was good to see more multi racial crowds
at congo square.....and the kids tent is always a positive place even
if just for a few minutes on any given day....gospel tent is rarely packed
except for the Mahalia tribute by Irma.....and second friday was
cool and empty.......kids and adults playin in the mud...those things
are what makes fest so special..
:D :D I love remembering.....you just gave me goosebumps. Man how I love the fest and the City!!! On that note, I'm gonna get ready for work and then fly out to start my Crawfish Fest adventure tonight:D Have a great day everyone!

[ohio]

To be fair, I sort of went out of my way to not see the BNA's. I had seen Steely D. and enjoyed the show but didn't need to see them again. I've seen the Allmans probably 30 times but love the Iguanas so we eased over there (played my mom's wedding taboot, whoot! Talking about fun? wow!) and the Friday BNA's I missed because of rain. We actually stayed all day in the rain but left at about 5pm to get back home and re-group before the night time shows. As you can imagine, we were wet (master of the obvious statement, I'm king of those! :D )

Funny you mentioned less black faces. During my 3 days there at one point, I remember thinking to myself that same thing and it bothered me a bit. I guess that's where the high prices may come into play for the citizens of NO with not as much disposable income.

Unfortunately, music is expensive to see when you factor in everything involved, it can be tough. The weekend Jazz Fest if you do 3 days for people on modest incomes would be pretty tough I'd think if you took two people to all 3 days, hotel, ate and drank and saw shows at night.

I'm trying to figure out now already how to do the whole shebang next year, both weekends. I'll do what it takes because I can't imagine not ever being there. My g/f (soon to be wife) and I are seriously contemplating moving there in the next year or so. Just need to put forth some effort and find some jobs. I need to get off my ass and get started.

I don't know much about this board (except I love it and everyone seems very knowledgeable and friendly) but it would be cool maybe for us threadheads to donate some money to a fund that would allow kids or whoever couldn't otherwise go from the city maybe attend the fest. At $40 a ticket we couldn't bring that many folks but one is better than none.

How would someone go about that? I know some people on here have some experience with such things.

Thank you Sissy, funny stuff!
That's a nice thought about donating tickets. We have discussed it here in the past. I think the catch that most saw was the probability the tix would be scalped by the recipients. But if a youth organization or school group was involved, I think it could work. Definitely worth discussing further!

[bywterbro]

That's a nice thought about donating tickets. We have discussed it here in the past. I think the catch that most saw was the probability the tix would be scalped by the recipients. But if a youth organization or school group was involved, I think it could work. Definitely worth discussing further!
absolutely......one of the local schools could make it work...a possible
field trip for the school band on a friday.......or the music class....
jazzfest might work out some early purchase group rates...

[ohio]

You must not have walked near Congo Stage for closing act Jill Scott a BNA R&B/neo-soul singer. The crowd was packed thru the craft booths. Old & young black faces, freshly pressed & looking/smelling like they just came from church. These people obviously had not enjoyed the day checking out local acts. I've always enjoyed the Thursdays & Fridays when you would see groups of young students in matching shirts parading around fest. Besides the local musicians, I don't think our black communities were ever huge supporters of Jazz Fest. No, wasn't at that stage at that time. Seems the racial mix of the crowed has always been somewhat dependant on who the act is. I too miss the school groups on Thursdays.

[ohio]

absolutely......one of the local schools could make it work...a possible
field trip for the school band on a friday.......or the music class....
jazzfest might work out some early purchase group rates...
now your talkin'!

[ohio]

The only way that will happen is if the entire city becomes like that...I don't see it....the city has changed and the fest has changed since the storm but I don't see the "disneyfication" of the city that was predicted and I don't see the "disneyfication" of the fest happening either. Just my opinion....
I think it's still to early to judge if that's happening. Developers are still working on aquiring entire neighborhoods. When those areas are rebuilt to attract monied 'gentry' from outside of the area, some real changes could occur. I definitely am still worried about disneyfication...

[Amy Winette]

absolutely......one of the local schools could make it work...a possible
field trip for the school band on a friday.......or the music class....
jazzfest might work out some early purchase group rates...

It's a great idea! If everyone just bought one exta tix when they bought their own and tossed it into the "fund," relatively little pain for significant gain! :)

[bywterbro]

It's a great idea! If everyone just bought one exta tix when they bought their own and tossed it into the "fund," relatively little pain for significant gain! :)
yyr.....great idea AW..
it would make it a little extra special if one of the performing musicians
could spend some time with the kids....show them what its like from
a working musicians perspective...take them around the fairgrounds, etc...

[BigDag]

And maybe we can have the little darlings run and buy us beer.

Just a thought.

[rosetree]

yyr.....great idea AW..
it would make it a little extra special if one of the performing musicians
could spend some time with the kids....show them what its like from
a working musicians perspective...take them around the fairgrounds, etc...

This is something that the Foundation should be doing!!!(if they aren't already)
The survival of local music, culture, and heritage depends on those who are doing it being able to pass it down to the next generations. This is one of the reasons that the murder of Dinneral Shavers was so tragic, he was passing it on to his high school students.
Why can't the NOJHF give out freebies to qualified groups??? An extra thousand or so bodies won't make that much difference to the masses that are already out there...
Just a thought....

[Cleophus]

I just wanted to chime in and say what a great discussion this is -- LOTS of really interesting takes and opinions (and politely exchanged, too)!

Y'all are intelligent, well-spoken, cool folks.

------------------------------------------------------

I'm really liking the idea of "buy an extra ticket and donate it to a school/youth group/etc." I might not attend JF next year, but I hope to see this idea and discussion continue.

[bywterbro]

I just wanted to chime in and say what a great discussion this is -- LOTS of really interesting takes and opinions (and politely exchanged, too)!

Y'all are intelligent, well-spoken, cool folks.

------------------------------------------------------

I'm really liking the idea of "buy an extra ticket and donate it to a school/youth group/etc." I might not attend JF next year, but I hope to see this idea and discussion continue.

the civility, and the respect for each other is what makes the discussion
so good, as you mentioned cleophus.....

in regards to rosetrees comments......jazzfest has been doing it...
and they did give away tickets this past year....altho i dont remember
exactly who they went to....so we could try and work with them, to
do more......the heritage foundation is very big on working with school
kids...they have free music programs set up in serveral schools in NO, with
excellent local professional musicians leading them..
and have a free summer music program as well led by Donald Harrison Jr.

[rosetree]

the civility, and the respect for each other is what makes the discussion
so good, as you mentioned cleophus.....

in regards to rosetrees comments......jazzfest has been doing it...
and they did give away tickets this past year....altho i dont remember
exactly who they went to....so we could try and work with them, to
do more......the heritage foundation is very big on working with school
kids...they have free music programs set up in serveral schools in NO, with
excellent local professional musicians leading them..
and have a free summer music program as well led by Donald Harrison Jr.

After I wrote the post, I thought that there is no way that the NOJHF is NOT doing this...it would be a good place for us to start!;)

[Frosty]

From this very website (click Foundation on the upper right for more) :

Community Outreach Tickets

Each year, the Foundation makes 7,500 Jazz Fest tickets available to nonprofits, schools and social service organizations, which in turn distribute tickets to those who might not otherwise be able to attend the festival. This helps us ensure that a Jazz Fest experience is available to all, regardless of income.

[Blitzzzzz]

From this very website (click Foundation on the upper right for more. :

Community Outreach Tickets

Each year, the Foundation makes 7,500 Jazz Fest tickets available to nonprofits, schools and social service organizations, which in turn distribute tickets to those who might not otherwise be able to attend the festival. This helps us ensure that a Jazz Fest experience is available to all, regardless of income.

1250 tickets a day is, I suppose, a start but it doesn't seem like very many given the climbing price of admission and the number of low income folks in New Orleans. It is not just "low income" folks that are affected by this, either. Those of us who are on vacation can afford to splurge, tickets being a relatively small piece of the whole cost. I met several middle class couples at the Fest who felt priced out of something that used to be part of their local experience due to the "tourist pricing" of Fest admission. Someone previously mentioned a "local" price for NOLA or Louisianna residents which seems fair to me. After all, everyone there is going to spend some money on something, so the Fest or it's vendors can't lose on that. :cool:

[Frosty]

1250 tickets a day is, I suppose, a start but it doesn't seem like very many given the climbing price of admission and the number of low income folks in New Orleans. It is not just "low income" folks that are affected by this, either. Those of us who are on vacation can afford to splurge, tickets being a relatively small piece of the whole cost. I met several middle class couples at the Fest who felt priced out of something that used to be part of their local experience due to the "tourist pricing" of Fest admission. Someone previously mentioned a "local" price for NOLA or Louisianna residents which seems fair to me. After all, everyone there is going to spend some money on something, so the Fest or it's vendors can't lose on that. :cool:

Two tiered pricing is a failure waiting to happen as it discourages those coming into town for Fest, hurting the hotels, restaurants, vendors, etc. The point is to encourage travelers, not discourage them.

As far as the amount of tickets distributed, I'd assume that is affected by contributions so it is tough to say what the appropriate number should be. The best way to vote on this is to make a contribution to the Foundation.

[McGregor]

7,500 tickets is over a quarter of a million dollars.

That's a pretty big contribution I'd say.

The best way to vote on this is to make a contribution to the Foundation.
Good point. I'd hope they would use that extra money people donate to provide more tickets and not offset their costs.

[jolie]

Two tiered pricing is a failure waiting to happen as it discourages those coming into town for Fest, hurting the hotels, restaurants, vendors, etc. The point is to encourage travelers, not discourage them.

As far as the amount of tickets distributed, I'd assume that is affected by contributions so it is tough to say what the appropriate number should be. The best way to vote on this is to make a contribution to the Foundation.

How does this discourage those coming into town? Previous threads seemed to show a positive response to a "local" ticket price. Though as a local, I'm more concerned for our younger locals who are very much being "priced out". Maybe a discounted ticket for college students....students in general.

[denbear]

A few sensible (?) perspectives from a 30 yr Festhead:
1. Fest has absolutely benefited from some corporate sponsorship. But it is imperative that administrators limit the perks & influence their money buys. If it's not truly in the best interest of our beloved Jazzfest, disallow it! (Do we really need an auto showroom, fr'instance???)
2. BNA's, this year was so over-the-top w/ 'em. Was really happy to read earlier posting regarding off-site, non-participation clauses in contracts. If BNA appearance fees are high enough to dismay the local talent, then let the homeboys (& babes) make some $$ in the clubs. If left unchecked, there's waay too many folks, especially non-local, willing to promote BNA gigs.
3. Why not have a discounted ticket, perhaps 1/2 price?, to anyone w/ a local I.D.? To negate reselling, maybe wristband 'em at the ticket booth?
4. Give up performances at ridiculously jammed stages/tents (particularly those being RECORDED!) for a very worthy sub w/ breathing (and DANCING) room. My 2 best calls were forsaking Dr. John @ maxed-out Acura for Bonerama @ Fais-do-do and abandoning the Allman's (God Bless the recording)
for the Iguanas killer set.

[jolie]

A few sensible (?) perspectives from a 30 yr Festhead:
1. Fest has absolutely benefited from some corporate sponsorship. But it is imperative that administrators limit the perks & influence their money buys. If it's not truly in the best interest of our beloved Jazzfest, disallow it! (Do we really need an auto showroom, fr'instance???)
2. BNA's, this year was so over-the-top w/ 'em. Was really happy to read earlier posting regarding off-site, non-participation clauses in contracts. If BNA appearance fees are high enough to dismay the local talent, then let the homeboys (& babes) make some $$ in the clubs. If left unchecked, there's waay too many folks, especially non-local, willing to promote BNA gigs.
3. Why not have a discounted ticket, perhaps 1/2 price?, to anyone w/ a local I.D.? To negate reselling, maybe wristband 'em at the ticket booth?
4. Give up performances at ridiculously jammed stages/tents (particularly those being RECORDED!) for a very worthy sub w/ breathing (and DANCING) room. My 2 best calls were forsaking Dr. John @ maxed-out Acura for Bonerama @ Fais-do-do and abandoning the Allman's (God Bless the recording)
for the Iguanas killer set.

Very sensible, I agree with every point!

[bywterbro]

Very sensible, I agree with every point!...
i think Jolie you were the lady who said she felt crowded this year?
IM not complaining....I did 2...i remember in the not 2 recent past that towards
the back of accura there was usually room to dance, etc...
now pretty much you have to bee on the track for dancings and breathing
room....so thats what i did.....and enjoyed it just as much....
locals would appreciate reduced pricing....show a drivers license and
you get a reduced price...its done at attractions in other cities...
and school age kids most definitely deserve a redcution....

[ozzie]

I love the idea of sponsoring a class visit... maybe we could aim high and do one class each Friday. I hope we go with that and make it work.

[ozzie]

Fest has absolutely benefited from some corporate sponsorship. But it is imperative that administrators limit the perks & influence their money buys. If it's not truly in the best interest of our beloved Jazzfest, disallow it! (Do we really need an auto showroom, fr'instance???)

I'm taking what you say a little out of context, and also drfiting, but we went to the bigwig dinner this year and it was apparent that most were there on a corporate dollar. I could have wept for Rebirth who played first. Room was two thirds empty (rest were yakking in the bar) and most of those in the room were on their feet... not dancing mind you, but working the room handshaking and networking and not the slightest bit interested in the music. Wanted to smack 'em. We enjoyed the night overall, but next year I'll pony up that cash for the school trip... for kids who will enjoy the experience.

[Frosty]

How does this discourage those coming into town? Previous threads seemed to show a positive response to a "local" ticket price. Though as a local, I'm more concerned for our younger locals who are very much being "priced out". Maybe a discounted ticket for college students....students in general.

Increasing prices reduces demand. If anything, economically, reducing prices for tourists makes more sense and puts money in the pockets of the locals. But, I'm not a fan of that either as it once again alienates a segment of your market. Tiered pricing flies in the face of hospitality and the whole campaign to get tourism back. And you lose one JF Fan to higher pricing (and poor hospitality), how many locals do you need to attend to make the same economic impact?

Also, I have not witnessed a shortage of college kids. In fact, I'd swear LSU moved their campus there on some days. I think the issue is more of getting locals from the communities that produce the brass bands, the Mardi Gras Indians, the jazz players to be able to attend.

[jolie]

...
i think Jolie you were the lady who said she felt crowded this year?
IM not complaining....I did 2...i remember in the not 2 recent past that towards
the back of accura there was usually room to dance, etc...
now pretty much you have to bee on the track for dancings and breathing
room....so thats what i did.....and enjoyed it just as much....
locals would appreciate reduced pricing....show a drivers license and
you get a reduced price...its done at attractions in other cities...
and school age kids most definitely deserve a redcution....

Yes I said I felt crowded, I've felt crowded in past years at times...but there was just a different feeling this year i cant explain. I appear to be in the minority..and I certainly don't have the answers.

But No Doubt I had a great time....weather I was standing in SRO, walking the track, in line for the POLs, serving beer or buying beer!!!

[rosetree]

So, I'm confused :confused: ...not hard to do these days...People are complaining that not enough locals are attending, so we should lower ticket prices yet, people are also complaining that it is too crowded.
You can't change the prices for tourists---that will kill the tourism dollar.
You can't charge locals less---too many problems to institute that.
I think that there are two things to do:
1. Make a sliding scale, as planned, for deeper discounts when tickets initially go on sale. The closer to the Fest, the more epensive. This will give locals a break and y'all who I know will buy early!
2. Bring back Thurday both weekends!!!!!!!! No explaination necessary!!!!

JMHO ;)

[AtPontchartrain]

So, I'm confused :confused: ...not hard to do these days...People are complaining that not enough locals are attending, so we should lower ticket prices yet, people are also complaining that it is too crowded.
You can't change the prices for tourists---that will kill the tourism dollar.
You can't charge locals less---too many problems to institute that.
I think that there are two things to do:
1. Make a sliding scale, as planned, for deeper discounts when tickets initially go on sale. The closer to the Fest, the more epensive. This will give locals a break and y'all who I know will buy early!
2. Bring back Thurday both weekends!!!!!!!! No explaination necessary!!!!

JMHO ;)

I feel the usual second-week Thursday will be back. Obviously this year the weekend-to-weekend visitors were around in full force, and between weekends the grounds are already set up. But the first week pushing it all a day early might not be worth it. I don't think I'd want to pay the same three-day crafts fee, for example, that they charged for the long second weekend, in order to exhibit on the first weekend. I'd have lowered expectations for a first Thursday.

[Amy Winette]

I like it RT, very sensible!

The only time I have felt uncomfortable crowded was DMB, but we sure enjoyed the set, so that's okay!

[swampwoman]

I found this quote to be interesting

Almost any compliant about the event?s massive size, impersonal experience, or incoherent programming is dismissed in both informal and formal conversation as
largely irrelevant. Why? Mostly because in the media-drenched
environment in which we live, we?ve made individual accommodations to
provide ourselves with what we want or what we need. Any outstanding
failure to do so is summarily dismissed, in this age of Darwinian
economic survival, as the failure of the individual to adapt.

and the "harbinger of the death of New Orleans" quote was interpreted as a metaphorical death of its culture

Thanks for posting this opinion piece bywterbro, I think the author has a very good read on the JF situation

[sophisticated sissy]

Outside of The Police, Bonaroo doesn't do much for me this year.




I guess it would be hard to find something to like at Bonnaroo this year. Especially if you don't like the following groups/bands:
Ornette Coleman
Wilco
Ralph Stanley & the Clinch Mountain Boys
Junior Brown
Martha Wainwright
David Bromberg & the Angel Band
Bob Weir & Ratdog
John Butler Trio
Mavis Staples
T-Bone Burnett
Fountains Of Wayne
Flaming Lips
Gov't Mule
Ween
Galactic
The Decemberists
North Mississippi Allstars
Brazilian Girls
Richard Thompson Band
Michael Franti & Spearhead
Kings Of Leon
Tea Leaf Green
Rodrigo y Gabriela
The Wild Magnolia Mardi Gras Indians
Old Crow Medicine Show
Hot Tuna
Ziggy Marley
Ravi Coltrane Quartet
Tool
String Cheese Incident
James Blood Ulmer
Stanton Moore Trio
New Orleans Klezmer Allstars
Lou Donaldson & Dr. Lonnie White Quartet

and so on... Pretty slim pickins' I guess:p ;) :)

[McGregor]

I guess it would be hard to find something to like at Bonnaroo this year. Especially if you don't like the following
Lou Donaldson & Dr. Lonnie White Quartet

and so on... Pretty slim pickins' I guess:p ;) :)

okay you got me there sissy! LOL

But it's not enough bands I really like to endure the sitting in the car to enter, the heat and the camping.

Maybe that's the way I should have put it! I need a bed to fall into after the party ends.

[sophisticated sissy]

For sure! I hear ya there!:)

[funkkjunkie]

I love a good camping festival but I'm a wakarusa kind of girl. 15,000 is its max. But last year it was so f'in hot, i just could hardly stand it. AS a matter of fact, I did leave a day early.

[swampwoman]

I love a good camping festival but I'm a wakarusa kind of girl. 15,000 is its max. But last year it was so f'in hot, i just could hardly stand it. AS a matter of fact, I did leave a day early.

that's one reason I haven't done Wakarusa yet - that fest would be very cool in October, and not in the heat of June