Any estimates on crowds this year?

[trchase@msn.com]

Do the Jazz Fest organizers publish the advance ticket sales numbers? I was just curious to see if the numbers will be at pre-Katrina levels. We are going to the second weekend for the first time ever and are starting a second generation thing by bringing our daughter who will be celebrating her 18th birthday. I can not think of a better place to celebrate than New Orleans during FEST!

[Fred (Texas JF Fanatic)]

Do the Jazz Fest organizers publish the advance ticket sales numbers? I was just curious to see if the numbers will be at pre-Katrina levels. We are going to the second weekend for the first time ever and are starting a second generation thing by bringing our daughter who will be celebrating her 18th birthday. I can not think of a better place to celebrate than New Orleans during FEST!

2006 was close to or equal to Pre-K levels. With this years awesome lineup, we might be at Pre-K plus.

[dumbtourist]

Do the Jazz Fest organizers publish the advance ticket sales numbers? I was just curious to see if the numbers will be at pre-Katrina levels. We are going to the second weekend for the first time ever and are starting a second generation thing by bringing our daughter who will be celebrating her 18th birthday. I can not think of a better place to celebrate than New Orleans during FEST!

The organizers never publish numbers, neither advance nor after the fact...however, you can expect large crowds.

Many attendees last year felt that it was at least as large as pre-K...a lot of folks (and BNA's) specifically came to help pump money into the economy to help with post-K.

Regardless, you picked a great event to share with your 18 YOD. Our son turned 20 last year and attended 2nd Sat. with us, especially to see Buffet. It was a wonderful way to spend time together and expose him to some new different types of music. In fact, he had such a great time he's coming again this year.

[swag]

Last year, they said something about advance sales a few weeks prior, but it proved to be a very poor indicator of actual attendance. With no mail order option to beat the service fees, a much greater % of folks waited to buy at the gate.

They did used to publish daily attendance numbers, until AEG came in to help run things. Now, they give ballpark numbers for the whole thing. 2005 was 400K over 7 days; last year was 300-350K over 6 days.
http://jazzfest.swagland.com/jfattendance.html

[Bill/KC]

Crowds were large this past weekend. I'd guess and say most days were 90,000 or more.

[liz722]

it seemed like friday and sunday were busy but not insane - saturday on the other hand was the busiest we have ever seen it in the 5 years we have gone

[swag]

I'd put Saturday around 95K. Not quite as bad as the Buffett & Kravitz days that were 98-99K, but close.

[Cleophus]

Yup, Saturday had a LOT of people.
Some of my crew, who have gone with me the last 7 years, were really turned off by Saturday's crowd (the number of people, not the people themselves!) and are considering trying French Quarter Fest next year instead.

[GeminiTed]

Yup, Saturday had a LOT of people.
Some of my crew, who have gone with me the last 7 years, were really turned off by Saturday's crowd (the number of people, not the people themselves!) and are considering trying French Quarter Fest next year instead.

I agree.

Last Friday's crowd size was comfortable, but Saturday was packed. Could barely even move near the Accura stage, and getting a seat for Norah Jones at Gentilly was close to impossible. We sat way in the back, around the corner near the entrance and people were sitting on the track. Blues tent was jammed all day. Sunday was a bit better, so I think Saturday's attendance was highest.

[billytherhino/nyc]

havent been to jf since 2005, but did about 11 in a row and id always remember saturday as the largest of the largest weekend crowds-

even with the nevilles and some of the BNA's closing out the fesst traditionally on sundays id say it was a RARE sunday that was bigger than a big saturday before it.

i was also at the juvenile/dmb jf fiasco of about 2002-03-and that was stupid- my office sits smack right dab in the middle of times square in nyc so im REAL used to crowds, im in em everyday- EVERYDAY-that was a very dangerous crowd and the fesst prods just slid by by the skin of their collective asses that nuttin severe happened.

sure makes you miss them lonely locals only thursdays of yesterday no?

figuring in the rain on friday 5/4/07-saturday crowds sounds about right-
was great watching some of it on the net-looked like a bootiful looziana day to me from up here-


peace all my bestest wisheses for happy and safe fessting- btr/nyc

[rosetree]

From today's NOLA ...

They joined thousands of locals and tourists clogging the Fair Grounds to take a final gulp of the festival's sights and sounds before bidding it goodbye for another year. Officially, attendance for the two weekends was 375,000, the highest it's been since 2003, said Louis Edwards, associate producer of promotions for the festival.

[Cleophus]

How was business at the Fest and at the galery the past two weekends, Rosetree?



375k divided by 6 days = 62,500/day average. Given that there were probably a lot less people in attendance this past Saturday, that pushes the daily attendance #s way up for the other 5 days.

One the one hand I like to see the Fest grow, but on the other hand, I fear it's getting too crowded -- especially this past 1st Saturday -- for my liking. (Especially when I consider that there was no Dave Matthews/Sting/Santana/Phish/Widespread Panic/Jimmy Buffett/etc. "big name" to explain the huge numbers that day -- I don't think all those folks came out of the woodwork to see Rod Stewart/Norah Jones/Ludacris.) Sorry to be a downer, but that's my $0.02.

[rosetree]

How was business at the Fest and at the galery the past two weekends, Rosetree?


Thanks for asking....in short it was great...I'll be posting a thread later....right now I'm back to filling orders and exhaustion!!!

[AtPontchartrain]

I don't think all those folks came out of the woodwork to see Rod Stewart/Norah Jones/Ludacris.) Sorry to be a downer, but that's my $0.02.

I don't know what's a "downer" about making a guess. But that first Sat for the last show the crowds were huge all around, at Acura (Rod), Congo Square (Ludacris) and Gentilly (Norah). I think they were big draws.

[swag]

From today's NOLA ...

They joined thousands of locals and tourists clogging the Fair Grounds to take a final gulp of the festival's sights and sounds before bidding it goodbye for another year. Officially, attendance for the two weekends was 375,000, the highest it's been since 2003, said Louis Edwards, associate producer of promotions for the festival.

In 2005, the first year AEG was involved and decided to stop releasing daily numbers, Fest officials said that total attendance was "approximately 400,000".

So that was either a big approximation, or someone is or was fibbing.

[Frosty]

I don't know what's a "downer" about making a guess. But that first Sat for the last show the crowds were huge all around, at Acura (Rod), Congo Square (Ludacris) and Gentilly (Norah). I think they were big draws.


Jazz and Blues tents were packed too.

[AtPontchartrain]

In 2005, the first year AEG was involved and decided to stop releasing daily numbers, Fest officials said that total attendance was "approximately 400,000".

So that was either a big approximation, or someone is or was fibbing.

Not a major question, but anyway...

When a brass pass or a Big Chief goes out of the fest (for lunch?? for a Save the Wetlands button?? to hear the noon news??) & later comes back in, do you think that adds another number to the daily count?

[Staxsun]

Don't they have a scanning mechanism for those as well? If so, it would knock out duplication.

[specialed]

I am not a counter, but the second Saturday seemed to me the biggest day since the Dave Matthews day a few years ago. They sold out of all water! They sold out of all Foster's, MGD. All that was left was some Miller Lite! Three beer booths told us they had never sold out of water before! Seems to me the 375,000 figure is low...

[pokerchick66]

http://www.fox11az.com/entertainment/stories/kmsb-20070507-wwljc-jazzfestfinale.474c59df.html

[ohio]

Not a major question, but anyway...

When a brass pass or a Big Chief goes out of the fest (for lunch?? for a Save the Wetlands button?? to hear the noon news??) & later comes back in, do you think that adds another number to the daily count?Brass passes are scanned as you enter, and a wristband is put on for exit & re-entry. So there should be no duplication.

[jolie]

I am not a counter, but the second Saturday seemed to me the biggest day since the Dave Matthews day a few years ago. They sold out of all water! They sold out of all Foster's, MGD. All that was left was some Miller Lite! Three beer booths told us they had never sold out of water before! Seems to me the 375,000 figure is low...

Agreed....I've read some estimated figures, but just based on 20+ years of festing, looking at food/beer lines, track crowds, POLs, etc. I knew the first Friday had to be close to record for that day. And also the second Saturday...people camped in chairs by the POLs at Gentilly Stage??...CRAZY!!

[Bill/KC]

http://www.fox11az.com/entertainment/stories/kmsb-20070507-wwljc-jazzfestfinale.474c59df.html

Nice article! :)

[pokerchick66]

Nice article! :)

Thank you! I thought yall might like it. :)

[dumbtourist]

I wonder if multiday passes (ie. Brass Pass, Big Chief) only count as 1 in the numbers no matter how many days they attend? That might explain why the crowds seem so much larger than the 375K mentioned....just because they are scanned everyday (or every entry) doesn't mean that they are added to the total count...may just be checking for valid passes...

[mightyradgumbo]

I wonder if multiday passes (ie. Brass Pass, Big Chief) only count as 1 in the numbers no matter how many days they attend? That might explain why the crowds seem so much larger than the 375K mentioned....just because they are scanned everyday (or every entry) doesn't mean that they are added to the total count...may just be checking for valid passes...

The scanner they use counts each scan as one admission. So if you are scanned in on six different days, this is six different admissions. This is the reason for the wristbands. Once the memory is clear on the scanner it can scan the brass, overpass, Big Chief) for the next day. If the scanner had to scan the brass pass multiple times over the day it would read the additional scans as invalid. The question I have is how accurate thier tally is. In other words, when are the counts taken off the scanners? I see no reason why they cannot publish a count unless they do not have accurate information from whoever is managing the ticket takers. Most of the venues that I work PT use the same scanner device and we can tell you to a person by the time we break down the gates how many people have come through the gates (well give or take a handful.)

[Fred (Texas JF Fanatic)]

What would have been the totals if they had Thursday and the weather had been better 2nd Friday?

[Staxsun]

The scanner they use counts each scan as one admission. So if you are scanned in on six different days, this is six different admissions. This is the reason for the wristbands. Once the memory is clear on the scanner it can scan the brass, overpass, Big Chief) for the next day. If the scanner had to scan the brass pass multiple times over the day it would read the additional scans as invalid. The question I have is how accurate thier tally is. In other words, when are the counts taken off the scanners? I see no reason why they cannot publish a count unless they do not have accurate information from whoever is managing the ticket takers. Most of the venues that I work PT use the same scanner device and we can tell you to a person by the time we break down the gates how many people have come through the gates (well give or take a handful.)

They HAVE accurate totals. They just have no desire to share them. I suppose that eventually you could find out this information if you did enough digging. The Foundaion is a charitable organization and has to file a great amount of financial information. They also are required to keep a public file which has to be made available upon request. That doesn't mean they have to make it easy, though. By utilizing a for-profit entity to put on the fesival, they might only have to list revenues and not specific attendace totals.

[AtPontchartrain]

Next year let's assign teams of threadheads to each stage and tent, and right at like 5:23 pm each day, get an approximate count. This can be done (http://poynteronline.org/column.asp?id=53&aid=22367), and if the Jazzfest wants to help all they have to do is bring back the band Counting Crowds. (A little joke)

[swag]

They HAVE accurate totals. They just have no desire to share them. I suppose that eventually you could find out this information if you did enough digging. The Foundaion is a charitable organization and has to file a great amount of financial information. They also are required to keep a public file which has to be made available upon request. That doesn't mean they have to make it easy, though. By utilizing a for-profit entity to put on the fesival, they might only have to list revenues and not specific attendace totals.

I've seen the NOJHF public filings. There is surprisingly little detail there. It shows the total revenue from the fest, and the total cost of the fest. There's no breakdown of revenues from tickets vs vendor fees vs sponsorships etc; and little breakdown of costs for performers vs stage crews vs facilities vs advertising etc.

There is no mention of attendance numbers.

But it will tell you what they pay the security personnel company, and what they pay for portolet rental.

[festbabe]

But it will tell you what they pay the security personnel company, and what they pay for portolet rental.

This takes "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about Jazz Fest" too far, IMHO ;)

[swag]

Originally Posted by rosetree
From today's NOLA ...

They joined thousands of locals and tourists clogging the Fair Grounds to take a final gulp of the festival's sights and sounds before bidding it goodbye for another year. Officially, attendance for the two weekends was 375,000, the highest it's been since 2003, said Louis Edwards, associate producer of promotions for the festival.

In 2005, the first year AEG was involved and decided to stop releasing daily numbers, Fest officials said that total attendance was "approximately 400,000".

So that was either a big approximation, or someone is or was fibbing.

And just this past Friday, the T-P noticed (http://www.nola.com/music/t-p/index.ssf?/base/entertainment-1/1179470638135750.xml&coll=1).

Jazzfest attendance

When Jazzfest's producers first announced 2007 attendance as 375,000, they trumpeted that amount as "the largest total since 2003"; the comparison turned up in multiple news stories. But after re-checking, they realized that in 2005, Jazzfest attendance topped 400,000. Still, this year's 375,000 -- a figure that includes both paid admission and thousands of complimentary tickets -- represents a 50,000 increase over last year. And in 2005, the pre-Katrina festival still included a Thursday, so Jazzfest was one day longer than now.

[Frosty]

And just this past Friday, the T-P noticed (http://www.nola.com/music/t-p/index.ssf?/base/entertainment-1/1179470638135750.xml&coll=1).

Can't they get the same guy to count who counted the Million Man March? A million people at Jazz Fest just sounds so cool.

[PaulC]

Can't they get the same guy to count who counted the Million Man March? A million people at Jazz Fest just sounds so cool.

By my estimation (admittedly through aqave tainted eyes),.. they had ova' a 100,000 on two of the days this year,.. and not to much less than that on 3 others.... wasn't in town for the wet day,.. but the total announced numbers are way off... a gotta think that 1/2 a million was much closer to the truth...

imagine for a second, that on the 2nd Saturday at any given time,.. jus' say 3:00 pm for example,.. that every single person at the fest had to be present at a stage,.. any one stage they preferred....

for a few minutes there would be no foodbuyin'/eatin',.. no stuff buyin'/viewin',.. no walkabouts,.. a few minute toilet embargo in place,.. jus' imagine every single person at the fest grounds at 3:00 pm on the 2nd Saturday havin' to be at a stage (again,.. any of their choice) at the same time.... now,.. jus' how crowded would that be??..... that day was ultra jam packed with everybody out and about doin' their own things...

i have no memory (ever) of the Congo stage and the Gentilly havin' so many people hangin' trackside at the same time...

[Frosty]

By my estimation (admittedly through aqave tainted eyes),.. they had ova' a 100,000 on two of the days this year,.. and not to much less than that on 3 others.... wasn't in town for the wet day,.. but the total announced numbers are way off... a gotta think that 1/2 a million was much closer to the truth...

imagine for a second, that on the 2nd Saturday at any given time,.. jus' say 3:00 pm for example,.. that every single person at the fest had to be present at a stage,.. any one stage they preferred....

for a few minutes there would be no foodbuyin'/eatin',.. no stuff buyin'/viewin',.. no walkabouts,.. a few minute toilet embargo in place,.. jus' imagine every single person at the fest grounds at 3:00 pm on the 2nd Saturday havin' to be at a stage (again,.. any of their choice) at the same time.... now,.. jus' how crowded would that be??..... that day was ultra jam packed with everybody out and about doin' their own things...

i have no memory (ever) of the Congo stage and the Gentilly havin' so many people hangin' trackside at the same time...

First Saturday was packed! Somebody here esitmated 90,000 but that wouldn't wash with the 375,000 figure. So, the big question is what is "packed" at the fairgrounds? 60? 70? 100?

Or maybe it doesn't matter. We won the ballgame but just don't know by how much.

[Bill/KC]

First Saturday was packed! Somebody here esitmated 90,000 but that wouldn't wash with the 375,000 figure. So, the big question is what is "packed" at the fairgrounds? 60? 70? 100?

The 1st Saturday was packed! It had to be over 90,000, probably 95,000-99,000. Just from past Fests, I can start feeling the crowd when it hits about 90,000. A 60,000 or 70,000 day is heaven!

[Frosty]

The 1st Saturday was packed! It had to be over 90,000, probably 95,000-99,000. Just from past Fests, I can start feeling the crowd when it hits about 90,000. A 60,000 or 70,000 day is heaven!

And people say 2nd Saturday was bigger. Did nobody go either Sunday then?

[swag]

One thing to remember is that each year, more and more folks bring chairs. And those chairs take up space even when the owner is off buying food, visiting the portolets, or at another stage. So I think that adds to the feeling of crowdedness. What feels like 90K based on 5 years ago when they used to announce daily numbers, may only be 80K now.

[Bill/KC]

One thing to remember is that each year, more and more folks bring chairs. And those chairs take up space even when the owner is off buying food, visiting the portolets, or at another stage. So I think that adds to the feeling of crowdedness. What feels like 90K based on 5 years ago when they used to announce daily numbers, may only be 80K now.

That maybe....I've never seen the Sprint/Gentilly stage so packed (both 1st Sat. & Sun) and there were a lot of chairs. But the food lines seemed pretty long as well. Plus, they weren't allowing anyone into the Grandstand. So, I'm still sticking with my numbers....95,000+ on Sat....maybe a little less on Sunday.

[Amy Winette]

I think a lot of the Acura crowd was at Gentilly this year due to the line ups. We're almost always an Acura krewe but spent more time at Gentilly this year . . .

[mdfest]

were also getting fatter, which makes it more crowded

[mightyradgumbo]

All I can say is they ran out of water AND Fosters...While the water sales could be attributed to the wicked hot temps, Foster shortages I think would be attributed to volume (or increased number of Aussies at fest ;) )

[grisgris]

There was a hell of alot of folks there is all I can say.

[festbabe]

There was a hell of alot of folks there is all I can say.

That's all you really gotta know :)
And we, we were amongst them! :D

[PaulC]

All I can say is they ran out of water AND Fosters...While the water sales could be attributed to the wicked hot temps, Foster shortages I think would be attributed to volume (or increased number of Aussies at fest ;) )


Four or five years ago they ran out of Fosters mid-way through the first Friday.... I was introduced to the fest by an Aussie,.. Jillian, by way of Tasmania... She thought the same of Fosters as I do Miller... but for the draft by the blues tent,.. they don't sell beer at the fest,.. cold beer flavored water is the best one can do there.... and still it is the bestest of all festest....

[PaulC]

There was a hell of alot of folks there is all I can say.

and one of them well remembers dancin' with a smilin' gris gris....

[stlbarb]

One thing to remember is that each year, more and more folks bring chairs. And those chairs take up space even when the owner is off buying food, visiting the portolets, or at another stage. So I think that adds to the feeling of crowdedness. What feels like 90K based on 5 years ago when they used to announce daily numbers, may only be 80K now.

and those chairs bought all the beer & water, that's why they ran out 2nd saturday. ;-)

sometimes the perception of crowd size is based on what stage(s) you were at when. if you were at the most popular acts, then it may have seemed more crowded to you than to the person who danced to a different drummer.

my experience left me feeling 2nd saturday was extremely crowded, 1st saturday was full but managable, both sundays were down about 10-30% from their respective saturdays. 1st friday was a large crowd for a friday, about the same as 1st sunday. 2nd friday was extremely weak, since many people were left with the perception that the day was cancelled or about to be at any minute and did not show up. but we have to remember that the track is set up to hold much larger crowds than it was 10+ years ago.

so my guess is 65k, 85k, 70k 1st weekend, 22k, 120k, 85k. which puts us around 450k.

i think they deflate the numbers so that they don't scare people away next year, people dont keep asking what they did with all the money, and the insurance rates dont skyrocket.
they scan the tickets. they know exactly how many people were there, and at what time they came through the gates. and the numbers are available in a timely manner. they just dont tell 1st weekend numbers because then we would know too much.
i know these are very negative opinions, and trust me I am not a 'conspiracy' thinking type of person. i just think we are being lied to.

[ohio]

and those chairs bought all the beer & water, that's why they ran out 2nd saturday. ;-)

sometimes the perception of crowd size is based on what stage(s) you were at when. if you were at the most popular acts, then it may have seemed more crowded to you than to the person who danced to a different drummer.

my experience left me feeling 2nd saturday was extremely crowded, 1st saturday was full but managable, both sundays were down about 10-30% from their respective saturdays. 1st friday was a large crowd for a friday, about the same as 1st sunday. 2nd friday was extremely weak, since many people were left with the perception that the day was cancelled or about to be at any minute and did not show up. but we have to remember that the track is set up to hold much larger crowds than it was 10+ years ago.

so my guess is 65k, 85k, 70k 1st weekend, 22k, 120k, 85k. which puts us around 450k.

i think they deflate the numbers so that they don't scare people away next year, people dont keep asking what they did with all the money, and the insurance rates dont skyrocket.
they scan the tickets. they know exactly how many people were there, and at what time they came through the gates. and the numbers are available in a timely manner. they just dont tell 1st weekend numbers because then we would know too much.
i know these are very negative opinions, and trust me I am not a 'conspiracy' thinking type of person. i just think we are being lied to.
I agree Barb, they be lyin' to us. Those scanners are extremely accurate and their info can be quickly tabulated. My opinion is that they don't want the media or the public calculating the money and then trying to direct it's spending...

[bywterbro]

2nd saturday was real thick,
the only place I could find to chill
was the grandstand....
2nd friday was the best...

[Cleophus]

What got me about this year (I only went 1st weekend) is that areas that used to be not-so-crowded were very crowded. The Blues Tent, even though it seemed bigger this year than in past years, was especially crowded; also the Lagniappe Stage, Fais Do-Do and Congo Square.

Food lines seemed as long or longer than ever, too.

Swag probably has a point in the increased number of chairs (it's hard to back that up other than anecdotally, but I tend to agree). The amount of chairs on the grassy area of the Blues Tent kinda pissed me off: Made it impossible to get inside the tent, even for non-BNAs. Had to stand outside the tent for every act I wanted to see there.

I like that the Fest seems to be increasing in popularity, but it seems to be getting too crowded for me. Might skip it in 2008.

[Zbonnie]

The amount of chairs on the grassy area of the Blues Tent kinda pissed me off: Made it impossible to get inside the tent, even for non-BNAs. Had to stand outside the tent for every act I wanted to see there.

I like that the Fest seems to be increasing in popularity, but it seems to be getting too crowded for me. Might skip it in 2008.Do whatcha gotta do, man, but I still wouldn't miss JF for nuttin'! I found that almost every time I smilingly excused myself, along with a gentle touch on the shoulder or arm, through the crowd of people outside the front right side of the blues or jazz tent, once I got inside the tent, I was easily able to find a good place to stand, sit or (GASP!) even dance. You just have to be determined enough to get that far in and the key is to KEEP SMILING. (By the way, this observation/advice is directed not just to you, Cleophus, but the whole Threadhead Nation.):)

[Cleophus]

Do whatcha gotta do, man, but I still wouldn't miss JF for nuttin'! I found that almost every time I smilingly excused myself, along with a gentle touch on the shoulder or arm, through the crowd of people outside the front right side of the blues or jazz tent, once I got inside the tent, I was easily able to find a good place to stand, sit or (GASP!) even dance. You just have to be determined enough to get that far in and the key is to KEEP SMILING. (By the way, this observation/advice is directed not just to you, Cleophus, but the whole Threadhead Nation.):)

Thanks ZBonnie! I think my posse might start alternating JazzFest and FQF, every other year, just to see how that goes.

Of course the best-case scenario would be to go to both. I need to find myself a rich widow before I can swing that, though. :)

[McGregor]

Thanks ZBonnie! I think my posse might start alternating JazzFest and FQF, every other year, just to see how that goes.



I had a blast at FQF this year but I can tell you already how that's going to work out for ya, it's just not the same (although really fun).

[Cleophus]

I had a blast at FQF this year but I can tell you already how that's going to work out for ya, it's just not the same (although really fun).

One thing that sticks out is the food -- a great selection at FQF, but not as varied as JazzFest's. I am sure that I will overeat, in any case. :)

[ohio]

Thanks ZBonnie! I think my posse might start alternating JazzFest and FQF, every other year, just to see how that goes.

Of course the best-case scenario would be to go to both. I need to find myself a rich widow before I can swing that, though. :)Let me know if she has a sister!

[funkkjunkie]

Or a brother, cleophus. Ohioooooooooo. I'm telling. And yyr, zybon, just go up to the front of the tent on either side and you'll be able to slip right thru the crowd. And people were dancing inside the tent, on the sidelines but still dancing.