What a Shame

[Azeater]

....to see the floor of the Senate turned into a cheap imitation of the House of Commons. It is embarassing.

[chicagomike]

Yep... With all the problems in this country it is funny to see how so many people are all wadded up about a congressman acting without thinking. (a real shocker) I guess I have seen so many REAL outrages that this act of incivility just isn't on my radar screen. But if it gives folks a rallying cry, then more power to you.

[Lostcajun]

Mr. Wilson is a side issue. There is a lot of opportunity for some good discussion about health care that are much more important:

-Reform of Malpractice insurance
-Competitive across state insurance
-Eliminating precondition rejections
-Getting both the government and the insurance companies out of the doctor's office.
-Pharmaceutical Reform
-Improving and expanding local neighborhood health clinics. (There is one in our facility and it does good work.)
-My idea: getting away from national bureaucratic influence in health care (both government and corporate), and let the docs, nurses and medical folks practice the healing arts from a LOCAL perspective!

[Lostcajun]

By the way, Chris J, if you wish to delete this thread because most political discussions tend to bring out the worst in us, you'd get no objection from me. The music usually brings us together at our best, and politics usually makes for a real negative vibe. Sorry to all if I've ever contributed to the negative.

Love is all we need y'all. PEACE!

[Frosty]

By the way, Chris J, if you wish to delete this thread because most political discussions tend to bring out the worst in us, you'd get no objection from me. The music usually brings us together at our best, and politics usually makes for a real negative vibe. Sorry to all if I've ever contributed to the negative.

Love is all we need y'all. PEACE!

Perhaps we can combine the Healthcare debate with music? After all, they just played Witchdoctor on the oldies station they play here at work.


Here's one idea: Everyone gets a free Physical from Olivia Newton John

[Mexi]

By the way, Chris J, if you wish to delete this thread because most political discussions tend to bring out the worst in us, you'd get no objection from me. The music usually brings us together at our best, and politics usually makes for a real negative vibe. Sorry to all if I've ever contributed to the negative.

Love is all we need y'all. PEACE!

Word :)

[chopitulas]

There is a connection people here should be able to relate to when one considers most musicians in New Orleans are without health care and rely on the Musician's Clinic, whose funding is in jeopardy and who quite conceivably might not be there someday. Thank God for it but there should be something better and more stable available for this group of people we all consider an asset.

This is just one example of the need. I guess them's that have might say, "Well, they should have picked another profession" or somesuch. But, given the economy and the number of people losing their jobs, no one should really feel secure that their employer will take care of them. Those COBRA benefits aren't cheap and they run out.

I, for one, can only hope we as a country have what it takes to turn this situation around and provide for our citizens as almost every other industrialized nation does.

[Lostcajun]

The Musicians' Clinic is a complex issue. It should exist and it should be supported. Part of the challenge for non-profits is good staff and leadership. I work with a non-profit that has a 5 million dollar budget. Several years ago it was in dire straights because of weak leadership (board and administration), lack of accountability, and the lack of good grant writing and donor development.

Today this organization I work with has fantastic leadership. We have worked our way out of a deep hole 6 years ago to a season in which we are debt free and even have reserves for a rainy day. The fringe benefits of the health of our organization is a very motivated staff (at all levels), increased clients, and more donors. I know nothing of the NOMC, but all these things make for effective non-profits. My prayer is that they can move forward with great leadership and get back to a healthy place.

BTW our organization effectively provides low-income housing, a youth shelter, and youth after-school program in a under-resourced neighborhood, adoption and foster services, manages a successful hunger project, and provides one of the top refuge resettlement programs in the state of Texas.

[festivalgirl]

By the way, Chris J, if you wish to delete this thread because most political discussions tend to bring out the worst in us, you'd get no objection from me. The music usually brings us together at our best, and politics usually makes for a real negative vibe. Sorry to all if I've ever contributed to the negative.

Love is all we need y'all. PEACE!

Free Speech and exchanges of ideas is the beast way to learn. It's not negative for some of us. And I don't think it necessarily brings out the 'worst' in people maybe just their true selves .... who knows. I think disagreement is negative ONLY when it is disrespectful and it is easy to disagree & debate respectfully. How boring to only be a Kumbaya Mutual Admiration Society.

I've always been a proponent of Self-Censorship. There are many threads I don't join because either I'm not interested or I have nothing constructive to add or I don't agree with, etc. It always amazes me when people (not you Dr. Father Rabbi Sherpa) bitch, moan, get nasty about a thread rather than just not re-enter. Personally, I'm a big girl (in more ways than one) and nothing has been said here that is soul crushing.

Peace, Love & Real Health Care Reform!!

[festivalgirl]

....to see the floor of the Senate turned into a cheap imitation of the House of Commons. It is embarassing.

I don't know. Maybe if they were honest about their feelings, more would get done. All this "My Esteemed Colleague from Across the Aisle" crap when they're really thinking "That Guy with His Head Up His Ass"......

While I disagree with Wilson's statement, I fully support his right to say it, look like an idiot, apologize & have his apology accepted. He's not the story ... millions of uninsured and under-insured citizens are.

[Frosty]

I don't know. Maybe if they were honest about their feelings, more would get done. All this "My Esteemed Colleague from Across the Aisle" crap when they're really thinking "That Guy with His Head Up His Ass"......

While I disagree with Wilson's statement, I fully support his right to say it, look like an idiot, apologize & have his apology accepted. He's not the story ... millions of uninsured and under-insured citizens are.

No, he did not have a right to say it in that time and place. The venue was available to the President at that time. He was the only one invited to speak at that moment. The esteemed Congressman with his head up his ass only has the right to say it in another venue or even that venue when granted a turn to speak. This is Congress, not Jerry Springer.

[revjimk]

If everyone sticks to the issues like Lostcajun, controversy is OK.
I think Wilson's outburst is a minor issue, tho I didn't like it.
Personally, I'm for Single Payer, like every other industrialized country.
Are they going to make us buy high priced insurance from profit oriented companies?
Dennis Kucinich calls it a big handout to insurance companies. Check his website.
However, if any of Obama's reforms such as no pre-existing condition ban, or no loss of coverage pass, it will be a step in the right direction.
Speech was good!
rev

[festivalgirl]

No, he did not have a right to say it in that time and place. The venue was available to the President at that time. He was the only one invited to speak at that moment. The esteemed Congressman with his head up his ass only has the right to say it in another venue or even that venue when granted a turn to speak. This is Congress, not Jerry Springer.

If he had stood up to try to give a speech or stop the President from speaking, then that would be a problem. But this was two words - very stupid words - he then shut up. I'd bet he didn't even realize the words came out of his mouth until he heard them himself (I can't be the only one who has done that in the heat of the moment).

He is from South Carolina & their Government is a constant source of comedy these days (if you don't live there, I suppose).

[Blitzzzzz]

No, he did not have a right to say it in that time and place. The venue was available to the President at that time. He was the only one invited to speak at that moment. The esteemed Congressman with his head up his ass only has the right to say it in another venue or even that venue when granted a turn to speak. This is Congress, not Jerry Springer.

as they say in the House of Commons, "Here, Here!":cool:

[Frosty]

as they say in the House of Commons, "Here, Here!":cool:

Yes, right before Jeff Beck starts his guitar solo!

[radi8tors]

There is a certain amount of decorum necessary for a civilized society to exist. Wilson is most definitely a jerk, because he knew exactly what he was doing. He was blatantly and publicly disrespecting the President. The number of words mean nothing. He could have caused more harm with just one word, like "fire" or the word you thought I was going to say. I'm all for freedom of speech, but there is a time and place for everything.

That said,this is an interesting article I read the other day about the health care and climate/energy debates in Congress.



Our One-Party Democracy


By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: September 8, 2009

Watching both the health care and climate/energy debates in Congress, it is hard not to draw the following conclusion: There is only one thing worse than one-party autocracy, and that is one-party democracy, which is what we have in America today.

One-party autocracy certainly has its drawbacks. But when it is led by a reasonably enlightened group of people, as China is today, it can also have great advantages. That one party can just impose the politically difficult but critically important policies needed to move a society forward in the 21st century. It is not an accident that China is committed to overtaking us in electric cars, solar power, energy efficiency, batteries, nuclear power and wind power. China’s leaders understand that in a world of exploding populations and rising emerging-market middle classes, demand for clean power and energy efficiency is going to soar. Beijing wants to make sure that it owns that industry and is ordering the policies to do that, including boosting gasoline prices, from the top down.

Our one-party democracy is worse. The fact is, on both the energy/climate legislation and health care legislation, only the Democrats are really playing. With a few notable exceptions, the Republican Party is standing, arms folded and saying “no.” Many of them just want President Obama to fail. Such a waste. Mr. Obama is not a socialist; he’s a centrist. But if he’s forced to depend entirely on his own party to pass legislation, he will be whipsawed by its different factions.

Look at the climate/energy bill that came out of the House. Its sponsors had to work twice as hard to produce this breakthrough cap-and-trade legislation. Why? Because with basically no G.O.P. representatives willing to vote for any price on carbon that would stimulate investments in clean energy and energy efficiency, the sponsors had to rely entirely on Democrats — and that meant paying off coal-state and agriculture Democrats with pork. Thank goodness, it is still a bill worth passing. But it could have been much better — and can be in the Senate. Just give me 8 to 10 Republicans ready to impose some price on carbon, and they can be leveraged against Democrats who want to water down the bill.

“China is going to eat our lunch and take our jobs on clean energy — an industry that we largely invented — and they are going to do it with a managed economy we don’t have and don’t want,” said Joe Romm, who writes the blog, climateprogress.org.

The only way for us to match them is by legislating a rising carbon price along with efficiency and renewable standards that will stimulate massive private investment in clean-tech. Hard to do with a one-party democracy.

The same is true on health care. “The central mechanism through which Obama seeks to extend coverage and restrain costs is via new ‘exchanges,’ insurance clearinghouses, modeled on the plan Mitt Romney enacted when he was governor of Massachusetts,” noted Matt Miller, a former Clinton budget official and author of “The Tyranny of Dead Ideas.” “The idea is to let individuals access group coverage from private insurers, with subsidies for low earners.”

And it is possible the president will seek to fund those subsidies, at least in part, with the idea John McCain ran on — by reducing the tax exemption for employer-provided health care. Can the Republicans even say yes to their own ideas, if they are absorbed by Obama? Without Obama being able to leverage some Republican votes, it is going to be very hard to get a good plan to cover all Americans with health care.

“Just because Obama is on a path to give America the Romney health plan with McCain-style financing, does not mean the Republicans will embrace it — if it seems politically more attractive to scream ‘socialist,’ ” said Miller.

The G.O.P. used to be the party of business. Well, to compete and win in a globalized world, no one needs the burden of health insurance shifted from business to government more than American business. No one needs immigration reform — so the world’s best brainpower can come here without restrictions — more than American business. No one needs a push for clean-tech — the world’s next great global manufacturing industry — more than American business. Yet the G.O.P. today resists national health care, immigration reform and wants to just drill, baby, drill.

“Globalization has neutered the Republican Party, leaving it to represent not the have-nots of the recession but the have-nots of globalized America, the people who have been left behind either in reality or in their fears,” said Edward Goldberg, a global trade consultant who teaches at Baruch College. “The need to compete in a globalized world has forced the meritocracy, the multinational corporate manager, the eastern financier and the technology entrepreneur to reconsider what the Republican Party has to offer. In principle, they have left the party, leaving behind not a pragmatic coalition but a group of ideological naysayers.”

[mightyradgumbo]

I totally disagree with the vibe on this thread that Wilson's comment was a "side issue". It is this type of ignorant behavior that causes the house of commons across the pond not to get anything friggin done. There is an amount of civility needed, as someone mentioned, to have points taken.

The reason we elect these people is that they act, while they are running for their respective office, as if they are going to be a catalyst for improvement. He can't lose his head every time he gets po'd about what the "other side" is doing. This was a disrespectful, ugly way to handle himself on the floor of the US Congress. He is not hired by his constituents to wave a placard calling the President a liar. His half-ass apology after his website was innundated (and crashed) with negative comments from both sides indicates such.

Here is an idea...shut the F up, Wilson and write a better plan.

/Gumbo stepping down off his soapbox/

[festivalgirl]

I totally disagree with the vibe on this thread that Wilson's comment was a "side issue". It is this type of ignorant behavior that causes the house of commons across the pond not to get anything friggin done. There is an amount of civility needed, as someone mentioned, to have points taken.

The reason we elect these people is that they act, while they are running for their respective office, as if they are going to be a catalyst for improvement. He can't lose his head every time he gets po'd about what the "other side" is doing. This was a disrespectful, ugly way to handle himself on the floor of the US Congress. He is not hired by his constituents to wave a placard calling the President a liar. His half-ass apology after his website was innundated (and crashed) with negative comments from both sides indicates such.

Here is an idea...shut the F up, Wilson and write a better plan.

/Gumbo stepping down off his soapbox/

My only point was he had the right to be an idiot and the rest of us have the right to call him out.

He was disrespectful and ugly but he has the right to do that ...... now he has to deal with the reprecussions. You shouldn't silence the idiots, you should point out that they are idiots and prove them wrong. Ask Barney Frank.

He can't write a better plan ... now he has put that out there and has rendered himself useless ..... not a bad thing, is it. Better to be a verbal idiot than an armed idiot.

[Lostcajun]

I always respect your ideas Dan. There are so many bigger issues, IMHO. It is nothing new for disrespect to be shown to a sitting President during a joint meeting of congress (it's happened over the past several administrations from both parties). There should always be respect in this setting in my opinion (I know that we agree), as there are better forums for discussion and debate. Whoever wins the election gets the bully pulpit in this forum.

Bigger Issues (not in any particular order):
A nuclear Iran
The National Debt
Rising Unemployment
Inflation (yes, it's coming)
Terrorism
Health Care Reform (including insurance, etc. etc. etc)
Tax Reform
Energy Reform
Environmental Reform (we need national policy on recycling)
Government Reform

and a bunch of Republican and Democrat idiots sitting on their a**es in D.C. fighting over their toys like a bunch of spoiled toddlers
AND, the liberal and conservative media poking sticks at them to get them to act worse.... and they are more than willing to oblige!!!!

I'm praying new strong and accountable leadership and I will continue to vote and continue to be civil in my dialog about these issues.

[Moon]

What we are witnessing here is a drama that's been building up for a long time. There was once in our history, a time when business and corporate leaders went against their own best interest for the good of the country. Sadly, those days are long gone. Patriotic sacrifice has been replaced by greed and avarice. Every lawmaker who has tried to rein in medical costs and come up with a solution to provide affordable health care has been shot down by the powerful insurance lobby and their paid off toadies in Congress.

In this land of plenty, the most expensive thing a person can do today is get sick. Since contracting diabetes, I've leaned that 1 in 5 Americans will be affected by this disease if the current trend continues. That's a lot of folks. Sedentary lifestyles, a diet high in fats, sugars, and carbs has created an obesity problem that is going to cause a plethora of problems for people down the road. This is the part where opponents will start shouting about "personal choices" and how "it isn't their problem if somebody doesn't take care of themselves." Let me ask those people this simple question. If you smoke in bed(no puns please)and set your house on fire, should the fire department not answer the call? Of course not. Your house could burn down the whole neighborhood. The cause isn't as important as the public good. This is the same thing. A healthy America is a more productive America.

Given the huge profits to be made by the players involved, it's easy to understand the mis-information and hysteria being distributed by those who don't want to lose a singe penny of those profits. Hopefully cooler, smarter heads will prevail but don't count on it. Money changes everything.

Good luck to us all.

[Azeater]

When one listens to Fox, Rush or Beck to see how outlandish the divisiveness has become it is made pointedly clear how little the two sides are interested in compromise for the greater good. It has become more a game of one-upmanship and partisan advancement and less an exercise in good governance. To witness a joint session and a presidential address punctuated with boos, hisses and outbursts makes me think that the definition of dialogue has been changed from the established exchange of ideas that I grew up with to the who can shout the loudest format of Crossfire. That is what I find shameful.

Yes, Cajun, there are obviously much more important things to discuss than the outburst but the point proffered is not that this is more important but that to get to rational discussion of those issues requires two sides interested in listening more than in being heard. It requires two sides more interested in arriving at results than in advancing agendas. Maybe it is too late for that to happen?

[eZe]

No disrespect to any of the opinions posted. IMHO it was disrespectful and not the time. He has apologized, the President has accepted his apology and I'm sure there will be further discussion between them. I can think of other actions in the past that have been much more disrepectful to the office of President but right or wrong, the public got over it (for lack of a better way to express it). Definitely more important things to focus on than one man's poor timing in expressing frustration.

[BigDag]

It's amazing how divided we've become, just eight short years after we are were one.

[Lostcajun]

It's amazing how divided we've become, just eight short years after we are were one.

I'd say, we're kind of back to normal, unfortunately. Partially because we have become too comfortable.... and not enough concerned about one another like we became on 9/11/01...

[Lostcajun]

Threadheads at our best are when we enjoy each others' company and support musicians through generosity. That's concern for others!!!!!!

And may I encourage us to be gentle when we do talk politics. We don't have to be hateful to someone who disagrees. We're probably more angry at someone else but take it out on each other when these discussions come up. But may I say, this thread has been very honoring and civil!

Props to you all.

[Moon]

It's amazing how divided we've become, just eight short years after we are were one.

You can thank Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, and Faux News for that.

[Lostcajun]

You can thank Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, and Faux News for that.

Honestly, all the media plays the game, not just the far right. Amazing how easily we fire off shots without noticing it. WE are the problem (even on this bored) as much as THEY, when we blame one side (either side).

There is no THEM.

[ohio]

Threadheads at our best are when we enjoy each others' company and support musicians through generosity. That's concern for others!!!!!!

And may I encourage us to be gentle when we do talk politics. We don't have to be hateful to someone who disagrees. We're probably more angry at someone else but take it out on each other when these discussions come up. But may I say, this thread has been very honoring and civil!

Props to you all.
Great points, Hari Ali Baba Rev!
I just know when I see T-Heads calling other T-Heads 'scumbag' etc., the discussion ceases to be a discussion. We all lose then.

[Lostcajun]

We do, Bry, out bond is the music not the politics...... if politics were the point life would suck..... music is so much more meaningful

[mightyradgumbo]

I always respect your ideas Dan. There are so many bigger issues, IMHO. It is nothing new for disrespect to be shown to a sitting President during a joint meeting of congress (it's happened over the past several administrations from both parties). There should always be respect in this setting in my opinion (I know that we agree), as there are better forums for discussion and debate. Whoever wins the election gets the bully pulpit in this forum.

Bigger Issues (not in any particular order):
A nuclear Iran
The National Debt
Rising Unemployment
Inflation (yes, it's coming)
Terrorism
Health Care Reform (including insurance, etc. etc. etc)
Tax Reform
Energy Reform
Environmental Reform (we need national policy on recycling)
Government Reform

and a bunch of Republican and Democrat idiots sitting on their a**es in D.C. fighting over their toys like a bunch of spoiled toddlers
AND, the liberal and conservative media poking sticks at them to get them to act worse.... and they are more than willing to oblige!!!!

I'm praying new strong and accountable leadership and I will continue to vote and continue to be civil in my dialog about these issues.

I agree about bigger issues at hand, my friend. I just don't think we can dismiss unprofessionalism during this type of event as a sidebar issue. It clearly shows the ability to be civil is losing its grip on all levels. This should not be tolerated. Definitely we need to be civil and that is my point. This has always been the hallmark of any reasonable debate and society.

IMO, this was not a joint meeting of Congress. This was a President addressing the country and the people invited are done so with the understanding that they are to follow the rules of the event. If you remember, they have removed invited people from these events in the past for yelling comments of various sorts.

As always I respect your opinions and let us be the benchmark that people strive for in the course of civil discourse.

[steeleye]

Is it just me or has the 2-party system in our country run it's course?

[Lostcajun]

Dan, we agree. Bad form is bad form. Obama won and should be able to give his speech without disruption. I would say the standard should be the same for any President. And each of the past Presidents experienced disruptions. That doesn't make it ok. It makes it wrong no matter who disrupts.

[Lostcajun]

Is it just me or has the 2-party system in our country run it's course?

I know that I am very tired of it...and personally wouldn't claim either party, no disrespect to those who do. I am uninspired by bickering, especially when we need cooperative leadership.

OK, I done with politics for awhile . Thanks to everyone for being civil. That tone and vibe really was most refreshing.

I'm going to listen to my wonderfully growing stock of Threadhead Records (can't wait for the Christmas CD!!!). And I will stick with music threads, and those wacky "moderate drift" and bar threads. Ok, people come on get happy! (oooops, didn't mean to quote the Partridge Family). How about some Cajun Spiced Rum Tea, anyone?

CAN I GET A WITNESS FOR Spiced Rum Tea? Good Gawd...yea

[rosetree]

I know that I am very tired of it...and personally wouldn't claim either party, no disrespect to those who do. I am uninspired by bickering, especially when we need cooperative leadership.

OK, I done with politics for awhile . Thanks to everyone for being civil. That tone and vibe really was most refreshing.

I'm going to listen to my wonderfully growing stock of Threadhead Records (can't wait for the Christmas CD!!!). And I will stick with music threads, and those wacky "moderate drift" and bar threads. Ok, people come on get happy! (oooops, didn't mean to quote the Partridge Family). How about some Cajun Spiced Rum Tea, anyone?

CAN I GET A WITNESS FOR Spiced Rum Tea? Good Gawd...yea

This is the only contribution I want to make to this thread.....
Here you go my friend!

http://www.proof66.com/Images/Old%20New%20Orleans%20Cajun%20Spice.jpg