Jazzfestlive has lost my business - for good!

[husb_2ndliner]

I bought the Doc Watson download and the quality is horrible. The crowd noise is just unacceptable. The Chris Smither set was OK. I asked Munck Music for my money back and they refused. They said I could substitute another set, but I don't want another set.

It is not worth the hassle to refuse $10 of the credit card charge, but they have lost my business for good.

[MormonMatthew]

I bought the Doc Watson download and the quality is horrible. The crowd noise is just unacceptable. The Chris Smither set was OK. I asked Munck Music for my money back and they refused. They said I could substitute another set, but I don't want another set.

It is not worth the hassle to refuse $10 of the credit card charge, but they have lost my business for good.

That really sucks, and apparently they have been screwing over many people these last few years; that said, I would go ahead and choose another set of music---there must be something you will want, and since you are paying for it one way or another, it dosent make sense to not take them up on thier substitution offer..........

I know how you must feel, but get something---it has to be better than letting them walk away with your $$$

[sophisticated sissy]

I bought the Doc Watson download and the quality is horrible. The crowd noise is just unacceptable.


You should've been at the set! Nobody could sit still or be quiet 2 minutes.

[Baconwrapped]

I'm still a little mystified... the sound on the download I did of the Doc Watson show is just fine... quite good, actually.... may just be a matter of taste... or maybe there's a problem with yours?

in any case, especially since their preview function is still not working and you had no chance to listen before you bought, it would just be good faith on their part to give a refund.

[Baconwrapped]

of course, the Beatles at the Hollywood Bowl, the Live Kinks and the Stones'
Got Live It You Want It are among my all-time favorite albums, and on each of those the crowd is so loud you can hardly hear the bands at all in places. So that says something about what I like in a live recording...

[Lit]

Munck/Jazzfestlive clearly has some serious business issues and problems doing the job, but I find it hard to fault them in this instance based on what you've reported here. You got the products your requested, and you even got an offer to replace them with other offerings when you communicated your dissatisfaction. That is far better service than most folks have reported. Your complaints at this point sound more like personal preferences, in that others have said that they liked the sound of the Doc Watson set; and you admit that the Chris Smither set is at least "OK." These are live, outdoor performances, so it is reasonable to expect some sound quality issues. I can understand them not offering a refund under these circumstances, and I actually think that the offer of another set is more than one might reasonably expect here.

[husb_2ndliner]

I was there and loved it and was sitting close and the crowd noise was minimal.

[husb_2ndliner]

To Lit:

I know a good live recording from a bad one and this one, in my opinion, is a bad one. Unacceptably so. I know there are other good sets I could get in its place but I don't feel like dealing with these people any more. They should just give a refund instead of generating the ill will that they have.

[Lit]

To Lit:

I know a good live recording from a bad one and this one, in my opinion, is a bad one. Unacceptably so. I know there are other good sets I could get in its place but I don't feel like dealing with these people any more. They should just give a refund instead of generating the ill will that they have.


Not doubting your ears at all; just saying that, imo, getting a bad live recording is part of the risk inherent in the purchase of the product. And without going back and reviewing their terms, I'm pretty sure they've got an "all sales final" policy or something to that effect--i.e., they'll replace but not refund, which I think is pretty fair in the industry. I hear you on the "ill will" but, really, at this point--where you've already said that you don't want to deal with them anymore--what do they have to lose by not offering you a refund?

I've long felt that buying from these folks is a caveat emptor situation, which is why I generally only purchase sets that: (a) I've previewed, if possible; (b) are recommended by others whose opinions I trust; or (c) I've attended and wanted to have after hearing live. It sounds like that wouldn't have helped you here though, because you at least had the benefit of (c). That being the case, I'd choose another set and write it off to the "life's too short" category of things that aren't worth any more negative energy.

[NOLA]

You should've been at the set! Nobody could sit still or be quiet 2 minutes.

And that's the very reason I stayed away.

We were fortunate enough to see Doc Watson at the Bristol Rhythm & Roots Reunion last September; there was a very large but incredibly well behaved crowd on hand for his set. No chattering among the crowd, just folks sitting quietly and respectfully listening to a living legend play for all he was worth. I didn't trust that the Jazz Fest crowd could or would be so respectful and appreciative of what they were witnessing, so I just stayed away.

I do hope to catch Doc again at a smaller festival venue in the near future!

[Lit]

And that's the very reason I stayed away.

We were fortunate enough to see Doc Watson at the Bristol Rhythm & Roots Reunion last September; there was a very large but incredibly well behaved crowd on hand for his set. No chattering among the crowd, just folks sitting quietly and respectfully listening to a living legend play for all he was worth. I didn't trust that the Jazz Fest crowd could or would be so respectful and appreciative of what they were witnessing, so I just stayed away.

I do hope to catch Doc again at a smaller festival venue in the near future!

Smart choice. I mean seriously, what type of behavior could you reasonably expect from a crowd filled with older gentlemen festooned with beads and feathery hats?

[funkkjunkie]

You know, nola, it makes me think about wakarusa and being in the revival tent during shorty's set. Having experienced the crowd's jazzfest "excitement" more than once at jf, I was amazed and astounded at how quiet the waka crowd was when shorty played What a Wonderful World with just his trumpet and his guitar player strumming a bit.

[husb_2ndliner]

And that's the very reason I stayed away.

We were fortunate enough to see Doc Watson at the Bristol Rhythm & Roots Reunion last September; there was a very large but incredibly well behaved crowd on hand for his set. No chattering among the crowd, just folks sitting quietly and respectfully listening to a living legend play for all he was worth. I didn't trust that the Jazz Fest crowd could or would be so respectful and appreciative of what they were witnessing, so I just stayed away.

I do hope to catch Doc again at a smaller festival venue in the near future!

As I said if you were sitting close, and perhaps this is key, the crowd noise was minimal and the crowd was very respectful. This is why I was so stunned by the recording.

[Baconwrapped]

Am listening to the Doc recording again and I'm... well... still mystified by husb's issues. It really sounds terrific, and I can barely hear the crowd at all! Even the applause between songs is pretty low in the mix... Doc's voice, after the first 30 seconds or so where it sounds like the mic might not have been positioned well, is crystal clear, and the instruments have a very crisp, forward presence.

So.... I'm curious if there's some real difference between what I have (the flac download) and what you got....

[NYMAMA]

As I said if you were sitting close, and perhaps this is key, the crowd noise was minimal and the crowd was very respectful. This is why I was so stunned by the recording.

I was up front also and could hear everythig fine . What a shame the recording didn't live up to what you heard.

[Baconwrapped]

I was there for the first few songs (it overlapped, sad to say, with my John Scofield interview at the Alison Miner stage) and thought the crowd was quite respectful and appreciative of this true American music hero.

but even with that, the recording I'm listening to right now is clearer than the music was live!

something fishy here... is the flac download mix different from the discs Munck sold?

[NOLA]

As I said if you were sitting close, and perhaps this is key, the crowd noise was minimal and the crowd was very respectful. This is why I was so stunned by the recording.

This just doesn't sound right. I guess I'm still wondering if there is a problem with the download you got. Will they let you download it again?

[NOLA]

Am listening to the Doc recording again and I'm... well... still mystified by husb's issues. It really sounds terrific, and I can barely hear the crowd at all! Even the applause between songs is pretty low in the mix... Doc's voice, after the first 30 seconds or so where it sounds like the mic might not have been positioned well, is crystal clear, and the instruments have a very crisp, forward presence.

So.... I'm curious if there's some real difference between what I have (the flac download) and what you got....

And I'm glad to hear that the crowd noice was bearable in person if not on the download. Perhaps my worst fears were unfounded....

[Baconwrapped]

and I was overlooking that husb's purchase was download as well... so in theory the exact same thing I got, though perhaps he got MP3s rather than flac. but that shouldn't explain THAT kind of a difference...

[MormonMatthew]

Maybe I am missing something here (wouldnt be the first time) but if some of you have a high quality recording of the set in question, couldnt you make a copy and send it to husb_2ndliner???

[Michelino]

I bought the Doc Watson download and the quality is horrible. The crowd noise is just unacceptable. The Chris Smither set was OK. I asked Munck Music for my money back and they refused. They said I could substitute another set, but I don't want another set.

It is not worth the hassle to refuse $10 of the credit card charge, but they have lost my business for good.

This is a business that has lost all respect for the customer. I think you should refuse the charge. Companies that believe they can insulate themselves from providing a quality product just by declaring that the customer has no right to return sub-standard goods should be taught the lesson that other consumer protections exist for this very reason.

[sophisticated sissy]

As I said if you were sitting close, and perhaps this is key, the crowd noise was minimal and the crowd was very respectful. This is why I was so stunned by the recording.


You shoulda been back by the soundboard.:)

[sophisticated sissy]

Sirs,
Life must be pretty good if this is your major beef in life.:D

[Baconwrapped]

Maybe I am missing something here (wouldnt be the first time) but if some of you have a high quality recording of the set in question, couldnt you make a copy and send it to husb_2ndliner???

why yes, I suppose I could.

[mightyradgumbo]

Just my 1.5 cents here but the recordings we get from these people are off of the soundboard, correct? If that is the case, flac or mp3 or disc should be minimally impacted by crowd noise. This is one of the problems with JFL as far as I am concerned. If a customer is dissatisfied with my product to the point of complaint, I am giving them their dough back if that is what they want-plain and simple.

Lit you mention caveat emptor but shouldn't there be at the very least an implied warrant of merchantability? Husb2liner should be at the very least a product of the same quality that others purchasing the same product. Since BWrap and more than likely a bunch of others received a quality copy, there is probably an issue with the specific download file. A product of equal value is an ok solution but there should be some customer satisfaction given.

/gumbo steps down off his soapbox/

[ohio]

You shoulda been back by the soundboard.:)The crowd noise was pretty minimal way up front, at least for the time I was up there.

[Lit]

Just my 1.5 cents here but the recordings we get from these people are off of the soundboard, correct? If that is the case, flac or mp3 or disc should be minimally impacted by crowd noise. This is one of the problems with JFL as far as I am concerned. If a customer is dissatisfied with my product to the point of complaint, I am giving them their dough back if that is what they want-plain and simple.

Lit you mention caveat emptor but shouldn't there be at the very least an implied warrant of merchantability? Husb2liner should be at the very least a product of the same quality that others purchasing the same product. Since BWrap and more than likely a bunch of others received a quality copy, there is probably an issue with the specific download file. A product of equal value is an ok solution but there should be some customer satisfaction given.

/gumbo steps down off his soapbox/


Gumbo, I am saying the same thing: They offered to replace it with an acceptable recording from among many other options. I don't know whether he got a different product or he just doesn't like it as much as BW does. Either way, he can replace it with another copy or choose another acceptable set. I am pretty sure that, if he continues to have issues, they'll keep offering replacements. My point is that he got the products he asked for, at the price he agreed to pay, and the company responded timely to his complaints and offered a replacement. As my prior posts on the issue show, I am not a huge fan of Munck. But I am trying to be fair, and I really don't see how they can be faulted here, where they are following their policies as stated and offering a replacement.

BTW, here are some answers to FAQ from the MunckMusic site linked to the bored:


1. What if the CDs I purchased are damaged or unplayable?

We take great care in assuring that your product arrives in good condition. Our audio CDs are high quality, and our specially designed CD mailers are at least somewhat shock resistant.

We will replace items that arrive in damaged or broken condition, but may ask you to return the damaged products to us. If your order arrives damaged or unplayable, please notify us via email (service@munckmusic.com) within 30 days of receipt and we will instruct you how to proceed.

1. What is your purchase policy?

All purchases are final, non-refundable and your credit card will be charged upon sale.

3. Are these recordings from the soundboard?

The recordings are multi-track recordings where MunckMix engineers take a combination of instrument and microphone stage feeds and audience microphones to render a high quality recording with a “live” feel. The multi track recording is then mixed and mastered in MunckMix’ mobile studio rig, or at its studios in Chicago, before being transferred to CDs and posted as downloads.

[mightyradgumbo]

Thanks for that info Lit...I guess my main points are a) they did not seem to be willing to replace the original purchase with the same set and b) they seemed to take no fault in the crappy quality to give a refund-policy be damned. Gotta think outside the box once in a while in the customer care industry. As an operations guy in the customer service industry, this is just the easiest fix for all involved.

[sophisticated sissy]

So, if you pay to see a movie in a theater and you don't like for some reason, you're entitled to a refund?

[Delta]

Sure you are if the sound isn't synced with the film, or the movie is out of focus or the volume is so low you can't hear.

[Lostcajun]

Since the JF powers-that-be do seem to monitor this board, hopefully they will read the concerns and look at ways to make future live recordings available from a company that can get the work done. My observation is that most threadheads are pretty generous and easy going and have been willing to work this out with the Munck people, but now it seems that all they can do is Munck-up the process.

Perhaps next year...

[Frosty]

Interesting to note that Munck Music is having such a terrible time handling customers in the same year they won a Grammy and garnered two more Grammy nominations. It is like reaching the mountaintop the same time your pants fall down.

[Lit]

Interesting to note that Munck Music is having such a terrible time handling customers in the same year they won a Grammy and garnered two more Grammy nominations. It is like reaching the mountaintop the same time your pants fall down.

They pulled a Plaxico Burress.

[Frosty]

They pulled a Plaxico Burress.

Still kills me he got a ring.

But, that play was classic.

[Lit]

Still kills me he got a ring.

But, that play was classic.

It was a great play, but it had to happen once the Tyree miracle catch occurred. That was an all-timer.

[Michelino]

Sure you are if the sound isn't synced with the film, or the movie is out of focus or the volume is so low you can't hear.

Absolutely. For instance, last year, after some yapper wouldn't shut up during an entire film in a small theater.. I politely asked for and received refunds for myself and the three others with me who felt our $10 experience had been ruined. The manager also apologized.

Caveat emptor? ...if you are a Roman and you get served lead in your wine, I guess you shut up and get mad. Things have changed in the last two millennium...customer service should expected (and those who give it respected). If not, well...Seller Beware...the internet gives your former customers' quite some lungs...

[Delta]

Whatever happend to the attitude of "the customer is always right" anyway? Even when they aren't, it's usually good business to pretend like they are, within reason. I had a guy come in the studio a couple of weeks ago and start telling me what all I was doing wrong with my work, and he wound up calling me a "complete idiot" before he left. I didn't argue with him or anything, just tried to answer his questions and keep my cool. He promptly went downstairs and bought several hundred dollars worth of my stuff from the gallery, and made it a special point to tell the gallery manager the deciding factor for his purchase was how "polite and willing to answer questions" I was with him. Sort of a weird test, but he was a lawyer from TX so maybe it made sense to him. :)

[Michelino]

Whatever happend to the attitude of "the customer is always right" anyway? Even when they aren't, it's usually good business to pretend like they are, within reason. I had a guy come in the studio a couple of weeks ago and start telling me what all I was doing wrong with my work, and he wound up calling me a "complete idiot" before he left. I didn't argue with him or anything, just tried to answer his questions and keep my cool. He promptly went downstairs and bought several hundred dollars worth of my stuff from the gallery, and made it a special point to tell the gallery manager the deciding factor for his purchase was how "polite and willing to answer questions" I was with him. Sort of a weird test, but he was a lawyer from TX so maybe it made sense to him. :)

Didn't it go "The customer is always right, and especially when the customer is wrong" Where I grew up it did...and while you sometimes have to call for the manager who understands that to come out of the back room...you can still usually find that person around somewhere.

When I was a waiter, there was a frequent customer who always caused problems, loudly complaining about ingredients, sending every steak back etc... He spent a lot of cash and usually tipped very well if he didn't pass out first. I loved to see him and his entourage in my section, because I found that if I gracefully handled his every boorish complaint while at the same time making sure that all my other tables were handled equally as well...the tips from the surrounding vicinity would easily be the best of the week.

[Lit]

FWIW, my comments--which, amazingly, are now being taken as a defense of Munck--were limited to the very narrow circumstance described by husb2ndliner; that is, he got the products he requested, for the price listed, and when he complained about the quality of one of the recordings, the company offered him a replacement, but not a refund. Now, we know from others on the bored that they have been very happy with that very same recording, so maybe he just got a lemon and it would be solved by giving him a replacement with the same item, in hopes that it was just a fluke. But it may also be that he doesn't like what he hears, and others do. In that instance, they have also offered to replace it with any of their dozens of other offerings--and, again, we know from others that many of them sound fine.

I understand very well the importance of customer service and customer relations, and I am probably one of the most demanding consumers one could ever hope (or fear) to meet. And I also know the other end; i.e., I sell professional services for a living. But, I have also been buying albums/tapes/CDs/downloads with my own money for some 35 years and I have never, ever known any single entity in the business of selling records/recordings/CDs in any form to offer a refund once a product has been opened. Replacements? Yes. Certainly. All the time. Refunds? Never. Not in 35 years, and probably not in a million. And I can understand why. Once you offer a refund, what's to stop folks from copying the item and then returning it for their money back? I know that's not the case here, but that's the principle behind the policy, and it's a sound one imo. In fact, for that same reason they usually offer only a replacement with the same item; that Munck offered any of its other offerings is actually above and beyond the call in my experience.

To be clear, I'm no Munck fan, and I'm not saying that this absolves them of their many other sins; but I do think they've done what one could reasonably expect a seller of recordings to do under these circumstances.

PS: My "caveat emptor" statement was also referring to the specific circumstance of purchasing live recordings. Simply put, many suck; some are good. And I have purchased my fair share of both. The ones that I haven't been able to resell at a fraction of their price to the used CD store are still sitting in my CD rack. It is the nature of the product imo; and again, what some will find acceptable others will not. That is why I think "buyer beware" applies here.

[Delta]

Lit, I'm not sure your comments were being taken as a defense to Munck at all. That's the natural course of thread drift. Not speaking for anyone else, but I wasn't addressing my post specifically to husb_ and his situation, but more just generally commenting on the overall tone of the complaints. Directed more at the shoddy customer service than any specific incident.

[bRETT]

I'm the one that's still trying to get the proper Toussaint download. Finally heard from Munck yesterday that my downbload had been reset and that I should have the right one now...So I logged into find that it had NOT in fact been reset. Ah well!

[Michelino]

"I know that's not the case here, but that's the principle behind the policy, and it's a sound one imo."

We disagree. I am taking him at his word that he did NOT get the product he expected. I am expecting that the seller should be able to ascertain the same thing...Honesty is pretty easy to spot, once you start looking for it. Any "principle", policy or other assumption that the customer is guilty of theft should be ignored when it is clear that it isn't the case. Otherwise, it is acts only as an insult and certainly not worth the cost in goods that it protects. Plus..demanding that a dissatisfied customer take other product in exchange just in case he truly is a thief is just adding another insulting layer of poor judgment.

[festbabe]

..

Sort of a weird test, but he was a lawyer from TX so maybe it made sense to him. :)

Lawyers will argue ANYTHING, won't they?!?

;) :p

[MormonMatthew]

"I know that's not the case here, but that's the principle behind the policy, and it's a sound one imo."

We disagree. I am taking him at his word that he did NOT get the product he expected. I am expecting that the seller should be able to ascertain the same thing...Honesty is pretty easy to spot, once you start looking for it. Any "principle", policy or other assumption that the customer is guilty of theft should be ignored when it is clear that it isn't the case. Otherwise, it is acts only as an insult and certainly not worth the cost in goods that it protects. Plus..demanding that a dissatisfied customer take other product in exchange just in case he truly is a thief is just adding another insulting layer of poor judgment.

I agree with your sentiment about poor customer service 100% (its a pet peeve of mine), but I dont know of anyplace (around here at least) that would let you buy a cd/dvd/video game, take it home, open it, then later take it back to place of purchace and return it for a refund or exchange it for a different cd/dvd/video game-----there is just way too much possibility for fraud or piracy..............

We all know that husb_2ndliner is an honest guy, and not trying to pull anything, (after all, he didnt even want a different selection for the original disc, which I dont really get, but hey, its his 10 bucks) but it would not be a workable business model to offer refunds/different products for items so easily copied at home.

[chrisjoseph]

Three years ago I bought an expensive craft from one of the vendors at JF. A couple of months went by, and they still didn't send me the piece. I called them directly; I got the run-around for another couple of months. Finally, I called Jazzfest and complained. Within a week or so, the craft was sent to me. And that vendor (I have been told) will never sell his wares at Jazzfest again (I wasn't the only complainer).

So: here's my suggestion...Call (don't email) the Jazzfest folks. Tell them your complaints.

Enough of this nonsense with the lack of customer service. Munck needs to improve dramatically, or be replaced.

[Baconwrapped]

Chris is correct. I promise you that the Fest folks know all of the issues. But hearing them from you, the most loyal and passionate Festers, will mean more than hearing it from me (in their minds a negatives-obsessed reporter just looking for a story).

[Lit]

"I know that's not the case here, but that's the principle behind the policy, and it's a sound one imo."

We disagree. I am taking him at his word that he did NOT get the product he expected. I am expecting that the seller should be able to ascertain the same thing...Honesty is pretty easy to spot, once you start looking for it. Any "principle", policy or other assumption that the customer is guilty of theft should be ignored when it is clear that it isn't the case. Otherwise, it is acts only as an insult and certainly not worth the cost in goods that it protects. Plus..demanding that a dissatisfied customer take other product in exchange just in case he truly is a thief is just adding another insulting layer of poor judgment.

Yes, we disagree. I do not believe it is realistic--or even reasonable--to expect a seller of recordings to refund the purchase price every time a customer says that the recording didn't sound like s/he expected it to sound. As I have said, replacement with the same or an acceptable substitute item is the only policy I've ever been aware of from any seller, so I'm not expecting this one to be any different because I don't think that's a fair expectation. Listening stations are always nice to minimize the risk, as is a working preview option, and Munck can be faulted for not having the latter as advertised.

[Frosty]

It was a great play, but it had to happen once the Tyree miracle catch occurred. That was an all-timer.

Actually, I meant his pants down moment. When he was with Pittsburgh and caught a pass on a key third down play only to spike the ball after getting up. Since he had never been touched the ball was live and the other team picked it up and scored the game winning touchdown.

[Michelino]

Yes, we disagree. I do not believe it is realistic--or even reasonable--to expect a seller of recordings to refund the purchase price every time a customer says that the recording didn't sound like s/he expected it to sound. As I have said, replacement with the same or an acceptable substitute item is the only policy I've ever been aware of from any seller, so I'm not expecting this one to be any different because I don't think that's a fair expectation. Listening stations are always nice to minimize the risk, as is a working preview option, and Munck can be faulted for not having the latter as advertised.

I think such intransigent policies toward customers by the chain music stores is one reason that these are now considered a failed business model. Especially when the argument that "this is the only way that it can be done" is frankly, flat out wrong. Among collector's clubs buying music "on approval" with the right to return for credit has been a standard business practice for many years. For example, I have been a member of the "Jazz Heritage Society" on and off for 15 years. I can assure you that when they say, you have ten days to decide whether you want to keep an ordered selection, it is the truth. Other than joining, there are no other conditions (such as the need to purchase additional CDS) to receive this policy as a benefit:

"Remember, as a valued member, you always have a 10-day home trial on every recording you choose. Collecting great music is EASY and RISK FREE. We want to make every effort to make it as simple and convenient as possible for you to return items when necessary". ( from their website) (http://www.jazzheritage.com/go/customer-service#returnPolicy)

Consider this is as proof that a business that sells recordings can trust its customers...and I think Munck would be better off understanding that it should consider itself on the audiophile & enthusiast end of the business rather than the bubble gum end. This thread should be evidence enough that bad customer policy can taint a business among its core users.

[chrisjoseph]

I think what we all can agree on is that they need to improve their customer service. We can quibble on the details, but they need to improve.

[Lit]

Actually, I meant his pants down moment. When he was with Pittsburgh and caught a pass on a key third down play only to spike the ball after getting up. Since he had never been touched the ball was live and the other team picked it up and scored the game winning touchdown.

A ha. When I made the "they pulled a Plaxico Burress" comment, I was referring to him having won the Super Bowl and then shooting himself in the leg.

I think such intransigent policies toward customers by the chain music stores is one reason that these are now considered a failed business model. Especially when the argument that "this is the only way that it can be done" is frankly, flat out wrong. Among collector's clubs buying music "on approval" with the right to return for credit has been a standard business practice for many years. For example, I have been a member of the "Jazz Heritage Society" on and off for 15 years. I can assure you that when they say, you have ten days to decide whether you want to keep an ordered selection, it is the truth. Other than joining, there are no other conditions (such as the need to purchase additional CDS) to receive this policy as a benefit:

"Remember, as a valued member, you always have a 10-day home trial on every recording you choose. Collecting great music is EASY and RISK FREE. We want to make every effort to make it as simple and convenient as possible for you to return items when necessary". ( from their website) (http://www.jazzheritage.com/go/customer-service#returnPolicy)

Consider this is as proof that a business that sells recordings can trust its customers...and I think Munck would be better off understanding that it should consider itself on the audiophile & enthusiast end of the business rather than the bubble gum end. This thread should be evidence enough that bad customer policy can taint a business among its core users.


I have seen the policy to which I am referring in every music store and seller, including many fine independent record stores that are not part of any chain, and have been in business for decades. The collector's clubs may have different policies, as you note; they are a different business model.

I think what we all can agree on is that they need to improve their customer service. We can quibble on the details, but they need to improve.

Agreed. 100%.

And I also think we can now all agree that How to be a Cannonball is a masterpiece.

[Lit]

I think such intransigent policies toward customers by the chain music stores is one reason that these are now considered a failed business model. Especially when the argument that "this is the only way that it can be done" is frankly, flat out wrong. Among collector's clubs buying music "on approval" with the right to return for credit has been a standard business practice for many years. For example, I have been a member of the "Jazz Heritage Society" on and off for 15 years. I can assure you that when they say, you have ten days to decide whether you want to keep an ordered selection, it is the truth. Other than joining, there are no other conditions (such as the need to purchase additional CDS) to receive this policy as a benefit:

"Remember, as a valued member, you always have a 10-day home trial on every recording you choose. Collecting great music is EASY and RISK FREE. We want to make every effort to make it as simple and convenient as possible for you to return items when necessary". ( from their website) (http://www.jazzheritage.com/go/customer-service#returnPolicy)

Consider this is as proof that a business that sells recordings can trust its customers...and I think Munck would be better off understanding that it should consider itself on the audiophile & enthusiast end of the business rather than the bubble gum end. This thread should be evidence enough that bad customer policy can taint a business among its core users.


BTW Mich, I just checked out that website and the return policy is not as liberal as the one you are advocating. If the item has been opened, you need to pay for return shipping, and you have to have one of the following reasons:

Return Policy
We will accept returns if:
You receive a wrong selection, defective selection, or a damaged selection.
You received a Featured Selection without having 10 days to respond.
You respond in time, but we received it too late to stop the shipment.
You cancel your membership after fulfilling your enrollment agreement, but we don't receive notification in time to prevent the shipment of the Featured Selection.
We have a 10-Day Return Policy on all items shipped. We may refuse to accept returns for reasons other than those above.

The question here is whether the selection was "wrong...defective...or...damaged," and they don't specify whether they refund or simply replace in that instance in any event. And they certainly don't offer returns when someone simply says they don't like how it sounds, which is the policy you appear to be advocating. And, you do realize that "return for credit" is exactly what Munck offered here, right?

It also appears that there is an "enrollment agreement" that needs to be fulfilled in order to comply with the membership terms, which I assume means some type of minimum purchase. Again, that's a much different business model than a retail seller of recordings.

[festydave]

So I listened to the Doc Watson disc today. Unlike most recordings which are filled with the sounds of an entire band here you have a solo Doc Watson on guitar. You hear ambient noise - crowd noise - mostly when he talks. I think crowd noise was coming through his vocal microphone as well. Some people get really bummed out by crowd noise and focus on it - while others tune it out or accept it as part of the fabric of the recording. If this recording was totally void of crowd noise it would be extremely sterile. But I see how one person would think this was excellent while another person wouldn't. I also liken this to a movie or a book purchase - sometimes you don't like the movie you just saw or the book you just read - but if the movie or book isn't defective you can't return it for a refund. I don't think this recording was defective.

husb_2ndliner - I would think you would enjoy something else from the catalog and should make an exchange. Possible try the Pete Seeger set. If it is a principal thing - I understand.

I continue to see the posts about customer service and we are aware of your concerns.

I remain


FD

[festivalgirl]

So I listened to the Doc Watson disc today. Unlike most recordings which are filled with the sounds of an entire band here you have a solo Doc Watson on guitar. You hear ambient noise - crowd noise - mostly when he talks. I think crowd noise was coming through his vocal microphone as well. Some people get really bummed out by crowd noise and focus on it - while others tune it out or accept it as part of the fabric of the recording. If this recording was totally void of crowd noise it would be extremely sterile. But I see how one person would think this was excellent while another person wouldn't. I also liken this to a movie or a book purchase - sometimes you don't like the movie you just saw or the book you just read - but if the movie or book isn't defective you can't return it for a refund. I don't think this recording was defective.

husb_2ndliner - I would think you would enjoy something else from the catalog and should make an exchange. Possible try the Pete Seeger set. If it is a principal thing - I understand.

I continue to see the posts about customer service and we are aware of your concerns.

I remain


FD

I like ambient sound .... it recreates the experience of being there! (even if you weren't there) It's what is special about a live recording to me - and why, personally, I buy them.

[Baconwrapped]

Dave -- as I noted, to my ears the sound of Doc and his mates on the recording I downloaded is terrific... crisp and clear except the first bit where it sounds like Doc's mic was not positioned well.

As for the customer service, that seems to remain a HUGE issue... and beyond that, if they're having problems (with the previews, with mail orders, with getting the downloads ready) there's no reason they can't simply say so... just a little note on their web site about the status. Ditto for the unavailability of tracks that artists have not allowed them to use, etc... openness and honesty are always the best course, if simply out of respect for the customers.

thanks for monitoring and addressing the situation.

[bRETT]

Update here: I ordered the Allen Toussaint dfownload maybe five weeks ago, downloaded and got the wrong music. After many attempts, they sent me an email last week and said they had reset my download and all would be fine...But they hadn't. No reset, no nothing.

Last Monday I got an email saying theyt would need to re-up the files and that he would get back to me in a day or so. One week later...nothing!

So it's now six weeks since I ordered the one download. Still got nothing. And I would have easily ordered another $100 worth of downloads by now if they were able to deliver the first one.

[Baconwrapped]

bRETT -- that's just inexcusable, especially after all the discussions with them about the various problems.

And I just checked their site for the first time in a while and found that the previews function is STILL not working...

[chrisjoseph]

Steve, when does your article come out?

[Baconwrapped]

Steve, when does your article come out?


I guess it's any day now... August issue is what I was told.

It's kind of mystifying to me that even knowing this story was about to come out they haven't addressed some of these crucial issues. You'd think they'd want to be able to say, "See! We fixed it even before the story ran!"

[BigDag]

I guess it's any day now... August issue is what I was told.

It's kind of mystifying to me that even knowing this story was about to come out they haven't addressed some of these crucial issues. You'd think they'd want to be able to say, "See! We fixed it even before the story ran!"

I got the August edition of Offbeat this past Saturday. Your article is on one of the first few pages. While you may be able to understand why the delivery of their product is so slow, there is still no excuse for the lack of response to their customer's complaints.

[McGregor]

Steve, when does your article come out?

There was an article in the Offbeat (Jeremy Davenport cover) I received on Fri about this. Was that it?

[Baconwrapped]

There was an article in the Offbeat (Jeremy Davenport cover) I received on Fri about this. Was that it?

That would be it...

[Michelino]

BTW Mich, I just checked out that website and the return policy is not as liberal as the one you are advocating. If the item has been opened, you need to pay for return shipping, and you have to have one of the following reasons:



The question here is whether the selection was "wrong...defective...or...damaged," and they don't specify whether they refund or simply replace in that instance in any event. And they certainly don't offer returns when someone simply says they don't like how it sounds, which is the policy you appear to be advocating. And, you do realize that "return for credit" is exactly what Munck offered here, right?

It also appears that there is an "enrollment agreement" that needs to be fulfilled in order to comply with the membership terms, which I assume means some type of minimum purchase. Again, that's a much different business model than a retail seller of recordings.

Wrong on virtually every level that matters to your argument.

1) The ten day return policy is actually as I mentioned. Which means you have ten days to decide whether you want to keep something sent to you. Of course you can listen to it. Yes that means you can open it.

2) Yes, you have to have put stamps on it send it back. That's how mail works.

3) No...As I mentioned there is no minimum purchase agreement. Your assumption is wrong here as well.

4) No matter how many additional out-of-context portions of their website you want to quote, I'll reiterate that this is also based on my personal experience. ..I've joined them off and on over the last two decades.

Yes, I realize that you believe that it impossible for a music mail order or internet store to treat customers like honest adults. So be it.

[Baconwrapped]

The new Offbeat just arrived and yes, the story is in.

[chrisjoseph]

damn, not online yet....

[voodoodaddy]

Update on my ongoing problems - You may recall I ordered the Paul Sanchez download about 4 weeks ago. The download didn't work and I somehow got charged twice. I then said I'd take a download of the Allen Toussaint show as well instead of a refund.

Anyway, after numerous emails I finally got the Sanchez download last week but no Toussaint. I am told they are having problems with their server, blah blah blah, but it's now several days again since I've had any sort of response about the Toussaint show.

Really, the delays/technical problems are bad enough but the failure to respond to emails for lengthy periods is just unforgivable. I too would have been ordering a lot more if not for this debacle.

[ohio]

The new Offbeat just arrived and yes, the story is in.
Just read it, Steve, and it seems very fair. Good job!
Personally, I don't tolerate lack of communication well. The seeming indifference to email inquiries is inexcusable to my way of thinking.
As a part-time web builder, I know it is not all that difficult to post previews of the offerings. As a businessman, I believe it a cardinal sin to forsake the needs of an existing client in order to satisfy another client. When these problems still persist three months after Fest, "I screwed up" just doesn't cut it. My clients would not tolerate it. Not sure why Fest does, perhaps there is nobody waiting in the wings to step in?

[Baconwrapped]

Thanks for the kind words, Ohio. I do try to be fair but to get the points out there.

As for Voodoodaddy's mention that they said they've had server problems, well, those things happen. But just SAY so! Put a note on the web site that they're having problems, that they're being worked on.... and that as thanks to the customers for their loyalty and patience they're offering some special freebie highlights download or some special discount for a limited time once the problems are fixed... SOMETHING! it's really not hard.

[Orleansnj]

damn, not online yet....

you don't subscribe to Offbeat? It's a business expense. coughcoughcoughahemcoughcough.

[swag]

I think the most disappointing thing to read was the comments from Fest assoc. producer Louis Edwards, that "if there are a few glitches here and there, you have to attribute them to the ambitious nature of the project, much more so than to any lack of conscientiousness on the part of MunckMix".

In other words, there's no real problem, and no need to do anything to address the issues.

[Lit]

Wrong on virtually every level that matters to your argument.

1) The ten day return policy is actually as I mentioned. Which means you have ten days to decide whether you want to keep something sent to you. Of course you can listen to it. Yes that means you can open it.

2) Yes, you have to have put stamps on it send it back. That's how mail works.

3) No...As I mentioned there is no minimum purchase agreement. Your assumption is wrong here as well.

4) No matter how many additional out-of-context portions of their website you want to quote, I'll reiterate that this is also based on my personal experience. ..I've joined them off and on over the last two decades.

Yes, I realize that you believe that it impossible for a music mail order or internet store to treat customers like honest adults. So be it.

Whoa dude! What's with the 'tude? Bad day?

I quoted the return policy word-for-word directly from the website you linked, not out of context. It is not "wrong" on any level, virtually or otherwise. I am happy if your personal experience with the company has been different. It sounds like a music club where they automatically send you their "feature" CDs and bill you for them unless you send them back; but I really haven't researched it to see what it takes to "fulfill" the "enrollment agreement" as referenced. Yes, I was assuming that the words "fulfilling" and "enrollment agreement" had meaning. My bad if they don't. Again, this appears to be a different business than retail music sales, which was the topic of my initial comments on the issues of returns. And even with the returns to this club, reviewing the shipping and processing terms shows a non-refundable charge of $3.95 per order plus $1.99 per item. When you are talking about CDs costing $10.00 or less, absorbing that cost plus the cost of return shipping would not be attractive to many (including me). Again, I'm glad it works for you. And I'm sure they are too...

I never said that I believed anything was impossible--that is a very poor assumption on your part my friend. So be it indeed.

As for the "honest adults" comment, I think it has been established that the Doc Watson recording about which the poster was complaining was not defective, unless you believe that Festydave and Baconwrapped are not being honest adults themselves. Some folks may not like how it sounds, but Munck does not have the same policy that your music club has, and it says so very clearly on its website. You may not like the policy, but if you don't, you shouldn't buy something from them and expect them not to follow it. In this case, they actually offered more than their policy requires by allowing him to chose another selection.

[sophisticated sissy]

That would be it...

Nice article! Fair & balanced IMO. :cool:

[sophisticated sissy]

... crisp and clear except the first bit where it sounds like Doc's mic was not positioned well.




You are correct. Doc was having trouble with the mic placement for the first couple of songs until it was corrected by a stagehand.

[chrisjoseph]

Here's the article:

http://offbeat.com/artman/publish/article_3785.shtml

[Michelino]

...You may not like the policy, but if you don't, you shouldn't buy something from them and expect them not to follow it. In this case, they actually offered more than their policy requires by allowing him to chose another selection.

Policy? Schmolicy! Yes, I started with the understanding that there is a class of retailer that believes in pointing to the fine print and saying "live with it" as a way with dealing with any dissatisfied customer. And certainly in the big box world with so many layers of corporate conglomeration, it can be difficult to find the person in the supply chain who really does understand that, in the end, "Customer is King" should trump any loopholes, implied contracts or other one-policy-fits-all gobbledygook. Losing quality customers forever while proudly displaying the "No Returns" sign? Well good luck with that business model when it comes to this customer.


So as for honesty, you are clearly misinterpreting my reference. (http://www.nojazzfest.com/chat/showpost.php?p=274185&postcount=42)..it was never about defects...and it wasn't about whether other customers were satisfied...it was about return policy built on the assumption that a customer might lie about his or her dissatisfaction as a means to get access to a recording in order to make an illegal copy. You seem to believe the policy is not only justifiable and perhaps even necessary. I believe in exceptions even (and especially) when it comes to written policy. And here is something you can believe in as well, in my world I often make it happen...with a smile!

As I've already started linking my own posts, before the feedback loop continues to dilute the good vibes, I think it's safe to conclude that we simply disagree. Ciao brother.

[chrisjoseph]

As I mentioned earlier, I think we can all agree that the jazzfestlive.com folks need to improve their customer service. We can quibble over the how and the why, but they need to improve.

[Michelino]

Nice article! Fair & balanced IMO. :cool:

Yes. I hope Munck does work things out. I really do want that Midnight Disturbers disc! I don't think I can wait until THR gets it done. :)

[swag]

As I mentioned earlier, I think we can all agree that the jazzfestlive.com folks need to improve their customer service. We can quibble over the how and the why, but they need to improve.

Well, all of us except Louis Edwards.

[chrisjoseph]

a rather surprising quote, I must say. My guess is that he hasn't tried to purchase anything from them.

[Lit]

As I mentioned earlier, I think we can all agree that the jazzfestlive.com folks need to improve their customer service. We can quibble over the how and the why, but they need to improve.

a rather surprising quote, I must say. My guess is that he hasn't tried to purchase anything from them.

As I've stated before, Munck's customer service has been abominable and is inexcusable imo. There is no question that they need to improve on that score. I was addressing their policies, which I think is a different issue.

It does bear noting however, that not everyone who has purchased from them has had a problem or any type of negative experience at all. Off the top of my head, I recall that Sissy, Festydave, Festivalgirl and the Potters all have reported nothing but good experiences with them. I and many others have had less-than-satisfactory experiences with them, but to keep a fair and balanced record here I think we do need to recognize that they also have a fair amount of happy customers among us, and it is probable that many others have had uneventful dealings with them as well. Naturally the ones who are not happy are the ones who will be more inclined to make noise about it, and in this internet age companies need to be ever more aware of the fact that even a small number of bad transactions can lose them a lot of sales from others who hear about them.

[johnb]

A friend of mine ordered the 2008 Del Mccoury Jazzfest set and it never arrived. He emailed them 2 or 3 times but got no response. So he went to the tent at 2009 Jazzfest and the man running the tent apologized and gave it to him on the spot without even asking for the receipt.He was very pleasant and talked about the recordings with him for a few minutes.I've only bought a couple discs myself and have never had a problem.

[Baconwrapped]

A friend of mine ordered the 2008 Del Mccoury Jazzfest set and it never arrived. He emailed them 2 or 3 times but got no response. So he went to the tent at 2009 Jazzfest and the man running the tent apologized and gave it to him on the spot without even asking for the receipt.He was very pleasant and talked about the recordings with him for a few minutes.I've only bought a couple discs myself and have never had a problem.

which is great... but it's still inexcusable that there were no replies to his emails.

[johnb]

which is great... but it's still inexcusable that there were no replies to his emails.

Yes I agree.He had a lame excuse that his security on his computer sometimes sends unknown emails to his junk mail and he doesn't always catch it.He did apologize

[Baconwrapped]

Yes I agree.He had a lame excuse that his security on his computer sometimes sends unknown emails to his junk mail and he doesn't always catch it.He did apologize

very lame excuse for a business that has email as the primary method of customer contact...

[voodoodaddy]

I got a response this morning saying they are going to post the Toussaint disc to me as basically the download option is getting too hard! I don't know what's going to happen to anyone else who stumbles into their website and chooses to download that disc.

I'll report back if and when I receive the disc.

[butland]

I found this quote interesting: "According to Peer Munck, his small company simply got slammed with extra work that had not been anticipated. At the top of the list was the job recording and releasing, often overnight, each show on the Allman Brothers Band tour."

Over at Hittinthenote, the ABB online sales site, you can find this in regard to shows from their Beacon run back in March: "DELIVERY FOR THE BEACON SHOWS WAS EXPECTED IN LATE JUNE BUT THAT HAS BEEN DELAYED. WE ARE WAITING TO HEAR FROM THE ABB ON A NEW DELIVERY DATE." I may be wrong but I think the late June date they reference was initially a May ETA. And no 2009 ABB downloads are available.

Sumpin' just ain't adding up here. :mad:

I hope Louis Edwards' statements are just a matter of putting on a good public face; the sorta thing politicians and CEOs say two days before firing somebody - "I'm behind him 110%"

And still no 2009 JF Comp? WTF? :confused:

[chrisjoseph]

And something else: up and until Jazzfest 08, jazzfestlive sold the cd's online at iTunes. Which was (and is) much more reliable and easier then using their own download method. However, last years shows were never posted on iTunes, nor were this years. This is especially puzzling given that they won a Grammy and were nominated for two others, and I'm sure many people went on iTunes looking for the CDs...and couldn't find them.

[chrisjoseph]

I would sum it up this way: great idea for a business....lousy execution. I believe they are well-intentioned folks, but they are NOT good business people. I just took a look at their website, and (unless I'm missing something) they don't even have a prominently displayed "Contact" button....inexcusable. And they need to put a phone number on their site. They need to respond to all complaints/messages within 24 hours. If I treated my customers the way they treat their customers, I'd be out of business.

[Lit]

Well if this Jazz Fest Live thing doesn't work out for them, maybe they can bid on the job for paving the road to hell.

[Frosty]

And something else: up and until Jazzfest 08, jazzfestlive sold the cd's online at iTunes. Which was (and is) much more reliable and easier then using their own download method. However, last years shows were never posted on iTunes, nor were this years. This is especially puzzling given that they won a Grammy and were nominated for two others, and I'm sure many people went on iTunes looking for the CDs...and couldn't find them.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. 2009 could have really been a breakout year for them with the Grammy success and all. There is a lot of noise out there about quality and avialability but the nuts and bolts of this thing really comes to the fact the only means of contact is via email and they don't respond to emails.

[Apostrophe (')]

Like Cyndi Lauper said, money changes everything. Say what you want about tapers and downloaders, but in all my years of free, legal trading I've never experienced the kind of frustration and disenchantment that's expressed in this thread. Maybe next year JF should just hire a bunch of tapers and let them upload their AUD sources to a JF subscription site.

[Baconwrapped]

Like Cyndi Lauper said, money changes everything. Say what you want about tapers and downloaders, but in all my years of free, legal trading I've never experienced the kind of frustration and disenchantment that's expressed in this thread. Maybe next year JF should just hire a bunch of tapers and let them upload their AUD sources to a JF subscription site.

This is a great idea. Heck, the tapers would probably do it for free entry to the fest...

[ohio]

I would sum it up this way: great idea for a business....lousy execution. I believe they are well-intentioned folks, but they are NOT good business people. I just took a look at their website, and (unless I'm missing something) they don't even have a prominently displayed "Contact" button....inexcusable. And they need to put a phone number on their site. They need to respond to all complaints/messages within 24 hours. If I treated my customers the way they treat their customers, I'd be out of business.
exactly!

[ohio]

I believe they are well-intentioned folks, but they are NOT good business people. I'm ready for a career change.....

[funkkjunkie]

YYR, ohio. I mentioned this a while back that this is a perfect opp for our unemployed THs, if it weren't for the fact that we want to be ENJOYING the sets, not taping and selling them. :D

[ohio]

yeah, there's always that...

[sophisticated sissy]

I think we can all admit that customer service in general has been in the toilet for many years. Have you ever been talking to a sales associate or a cashier at a store who answers a ringing telephone in the middle of a transaction?

How about hold times while you're listening to Muzak after you've listened to a menu of options that is longer than the Gettysburg Address?

How about going into your friendly Lowe's or Home Depot and trying to find somebody who knows how to find someone who can help you find what you want to buy?

Look on the bright side, at least Munck Music hasn't outsourced their Customer Service Department to the Indian Sub-Continent.
Yet. :p :D


Seriously, it just looks like M.M. has become the whipping boy for poor customer service in general.

Why don't we all go back to bitching about TicketMaster? :)

[Baconwrapped]

I think we can all admit that customer service in general has been in the toilet for many years. Have you ever been talking to a sales associate or a cashier at a store who answers a ringing telephone in the middle of a transaction?

How about hold times while you're listening to Muzak after you've listened to a menu of options that is longer than the Gettysburg Address?

How about going into your friendly Lowe's or Home Depot and trying to find somebody who knows how to find someone who can help you find what you want to buy?

Look on the bright side, at least Munck Music hasn't outsourced their Customer Service Department to the Indian Sub-Continent.
Yet. :p :D


Seriously, it just looks like M.M. has become the whipping boy for poor customer service in general.

Why don't we all go back to bitching about TicketMaster? :)

okay, valid point.... I've long been saying that if I owned a business I would forbid employees from ever answering any customer's questions with "I don't know." Instead, it should be "Let me find that out." Or "Let me get someone who can help you." Or whatever...

But indeed today there are very lax standards many places in customer relations and service. That, though, does not excuse anyone, including MM.

[Lit]

okay, valid point.... I've long been saying that if I owned a business I would forbid employees from ever answering any customer's questions with "I don't know." Instead, it should be "Let me find that out." Or "Let me get someone who can help you." Or whatever...

But indeed today there are very lax standards many places in customer relations and service. That, though, does not excuse anyone, including MM.

My favorite response to the "I don't knows" is "How long do you think it will take you to find out?" I get lots of great looks from that one.

[ohio]

My favorite response to the "I don't knows" is "How long do you think it will take you to find out?" I get lots of great looks from that one.
My response to "I don't knows" is always "let me speak to your supervisor". That usually gets the issue resolved, but not always.

[Lit]

My response to "I don't knows" is always "let me speak to your supervisor". That usually gets the issue resolved, but not always.

Yes, I usually end up asking if I can speak with their supervisor, or someone else who may know the answer. It has been very effective at resolving the issue. I can't count the number of times I have been put through to an "elevated response center" for customer service issues, where people are ultimately calling me back to check on the status of my issue to make sure it was resolved to my satisfaction.

[funkkjunkie]

i'm right there with you, lit. I've had a couple of conference calls with the bigwigs after complaining about the way things were handled. But an entire article has been written about munckmusic, along with more than one thread addressing their poor service, and it seems they really dont give a care.

[Lit]

i'm right there with you, lit. I've had a couple of conference calls with the bigwigs after complaining about the way things were handled. But an entire article has been written about munckmusic, along with more than one thread addressing their poor service, and it seems they really dont give a care.

I agree. I've already made my decision not to give them any more of my business unless they get their releases back on iTunes, where I know I can preview and ultimately download with no problems. If it were my business decision to make, I would already be where I was months ago when the issue was first raised here; i.e., I would fire them and hire another company to do the job. I believe in competition and I can't accept Steve's premise that Munck is the only company that can do what it does. I would approach FestivaLink and Nugs/Livedownloads and ask them for their proposals about how to do this. Even if it means hiring one company to record and mix and another to distribute, there has to be a better option. IMO, Jazz Fest is enabling Munck's behavior at this point by continuing to tolerate it. Fool me once...

The idea of allowing traders and other non-professionals to record and distribute would be a good one if the intent was simply to allow access to the music. But obviously there is a profit motive for Fest. That being the case, it is even more surprising that they haven't taken steps to replace Munck, because the amount of potential sales that have been lost through their mis-handling of various problems has to be significant if this bored is any indication.

[chrisjoseph]

No more business from me until: 1) they begin handling their customer service differently (and better); 2) they pledge to respond to all emails and telephone calls within 24 hours; and 3) they put all their product on iTunes.

[Baconwrapped]

But obviously there is a profit motive for Fest. That being the case, it is even more surprising that they haven't taken steps to replace Munck, because the amount of potential sales that have been lost through their mis-handling of various problems has to be significant if this bored is any indication.

I made that very case in my discussions with JazzFest folks while working on the Offbeat story. Both Fest and the artists are losing money on lost sales, very clearly. Of course, maybe Fest has some kind of sweetheart deal that they couldn't duplicate with another company?

[stynger]

The idea of allowing traders and other non-professionals to record and distribute would be a good one if the intent was simply to allow access to the music.

I agree and I can assure you the music would be distributed much quicker.

[festbabe]

I agree and I can assure you the music would be distributed much quicker.

Yes, Stynger, I know ;)

[DougNSharon]

Digital Soundboard finally has collections of recordings available from both the Crawfishfest and All Good Music Festival.

www.digitalsoundboard.net

Please post any comments on their quality and service. I've had good luck with them in the past.

[Crawfish Fest]

Digital Soundboard finally has collections of recordings available from both the Crawfishfest and All Good Music Festival.

www.digitalsoundboard.net

Please post any comments on their quality and service. I've had good luck with them in the past.

Dave has very good customer service and responds quickly to e-mails I have sent.
Let me know if anything goes unresolved. I can help.

[stynger]

Just an update to my jazzfest live dealing....



Got the CDs today. 2 of the 3 were correct.

Instead of of Voice Of the Wetlands you sent Voices Of St. Peter. Will you please send The Voice Of The Wetlands? The correct request. Please let me know when it's in the mail.

M Rabago



In a message dated 8/10/2009 12:01:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, service@munckmusic.com writes:
That's the UPS tracking number for your package. It will not show up in their system till after the driver picks it up, which is sometime after 5 pm central time. You should have it in a couple days.


On Aug 9, 2009, at 6:44 AM, Stynger wrote:


Well I haven't seen these recording yet. It's quite frustrating dealing with this. Are you going to send these or not?

By the way in regards to filling out an incorrect address, it's unlikely I did that on three different forms.

M Rabago

In a message dated 7/20/2009 3:33:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,Stynger writes:
Mark Rabago
Lawrenceville GA


In a message dated 7/20/2009 2:02:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, service@munckmusic.com writes:
We have shipped out all of those a long time ago. The only thing I can think of is if you have not received those by now is that you filled out the shipping address incorrectly. That would not be the 1st time we have seen that.


Give me your shipping address, and I'll send out the Kent, Disturbers, and Wetlands. We are finishing the 2009 comp now, and it will ship out over the next couple weeks.


On Jul 16, 2009, at 6:53 PM, Stynger wrote:


I still have not received any discs in the mail. What is going on???

M Rabago



In a message dated 6/19/2009 12:48:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, service@munckmusic.com writes:
Everything except for the compilation has shipped out. We are working on the 2009 compilation now, and that will ship out in July. If you still don't have any of the rest of your order, please let me know what you are missing, and were I can send the replacement disc to.


On Jun 15, 2009, at 3:27 PM, Stynger wrote:


Can you tell me the status of these Jazzfest recordings please? Can't get any info on your page.

Luther Kent 2009
Midnight Disturber 2009
Voice of Wetlands 2009 order
Compilation 2009 order
Thank You

[ohio]

Wowser! unbelievable they inferred it was your error, then couldn't even get your order right...

[Delta]

That doesn't even make sense. They reference a UPS tracking number for one shipment and yet they can't track the other shipment that you supposedly gave them the wrong address for? How stupid do they think someone has to be to not know their own address anyway?

[swag]

Just an update to my jazzfest live dealing....




Sorry for the headaches.

Just in the name of privacy, I'd suggest redacting your address, your email, and maybe your order numbers from your post.

[stynger]

Sorry for the headaches.

Just in the name of privacy, I'd suggest redacting your address, your email, and maybe your order numbers from your post.

Good idea thanks.

[Freakwinox]

Update rec'd today from Hittin' the Note:

Regarding the Beacon CDs - It is our hope that all remaining issues with the Beacon CDs will be resolved by the time the band goes back on the road in mid-August. If that happens, it will take about 4-6 weeks for everything to be manufactured. Therefore a September/October delivery date is probable. If these issues are not resolved by the end of August we will begin issuing refunds. Hittin’ the Note and the Allman Brothers Band would like to thank all of our customers and fans for their remarkable patience during this process.

...these shows were five months ago...friend of mine pulled them off of moogis a week after the run...time for munck to grab the white flag.

[festbabe]

..


By the way in regards to filling out an incorrect address, it's unlikely I did that on three different forms.

..



Priceless.

Ugh, what a PIA it all is.

[Baconwrapped]

great to see that the Offbeat story spurred them to get their s--t together. :(

[chrisjoseph]

I know it will be tempting to purchase stuff from them next Jazzfest, but I say let's vote with our wallets....

[groovy1967]

Not that I would ever advocate illegally copying an artist's official release, but...

Perhaps the folks running Jazz Fest might be less inclined to work with Munck if they knew that fans were more inclined to copy and illegally upload/download these live tracks because of a general disgust with Munck's business practices. Let's be frank-- if people refuse to make purchases from Munck, that's not going to tamper the desire to own these recordings, and in today's world, it's not that hard to obtain free recordings of anything if your morals are loose enough. This battle with Munck just might open up a really big can of worms because so far, everyone seems to be doing the right thing and not illegally copying/uploading/downloading these releases, but the more people loathe Munck, the less likely they'll be to hold up their end of the bargain, which is sad because both the artists and the festival will suffer.

Of course, illegal copying, uploading, and downloading won't be much of a problem when we have to wait several years for Munck to distribute the recordings!

[chrisjoseph]

All it would take is one year of withholding our purchases....

[ohio]

All it would take is one year of withholding our purchases....
I've already done that...

[glinda]

These stories are just unbelievable (stynger)! And I thought comcast customer service was bad. I made one purchase a few years back and the quality was so bad, I figured that's how they all were, and never bought any more. Not totally true. But not untrue either. Bet I'm not alone. What's most incredible is that there was no thought of changing suppliers even after the Offbeat article! Guess I'll wait til JazzFest gets a new supplier before I buy any live recordings!

[NYMAMA]

YYR I bought 1 two years ago of Amanda Shaw and the quality was BAD!

[bRETT]

Same story with me, I'm afraid...I bought one download (Allen Toussaint), after nearly two months I haven't got it yet. I seem to get one email response every two weeks; in the latest one he just said if I gave him my address he'd send the CD (Why he couldn't just upload the music properly so I could d/l it is another question). I will believe I'm getting this on the day I see it...Maybe later.

If they're still doing the live recordings next year I won't boycott...I'll just buy them on the fairgrounds (or in the LMF) and never again make a remote order. I have no problem with their actual product, on those occasions when they deliver it.

[Baconwrapped]

Well, they finally seem to have gotten the preview feature working.... so at least we can hear clips of the material before boycotting. ;)

[stynger]

Not that I would ever advocate illegally copying an artist's official release, but...

Perhaps the folks running Jazz Fest might be less inclined to work with Munck if they knew that fans were more inclined to copy and illegally upload/download these live tracks because of a general disgust with Munck's business practices. Let's be frank-- if people refuse to make purchases from Munck, that's not going to tamper the desire to own these recordings, and in today's world, it's not that hard to obtain free recordings of anything if your morals are loose enough. This battle with Munck just might open up a really big can of worms because so far, everyone seems to be doing the right thing and not illegally copying/uploading/downloading these releases, but the more people loathe Munck, the less likely they'll be to hold up their end of the bargain, which is sad because both the artists and the festival will suffer.

Of course, illegal copying, uploading, and downloading won't be much of a problem when we have to wait several years for Munck to distribute the recordings!

I can't tell you how much I've been tempted to do this.:mad:

I don't want to F anything up.

[stynger]

[QUOTE=glinda;278038] What's most incredible is that there was no thought of changing suppliers even after the Offbeat article!QUOTE]

I don't expect the fest to let us know what they might be thinking of doing if anything.

But what kind of bothers me is that Festy Dave made a rather lenghty comment on the sound quality of an artists performance justifying, rightly so, the reasons for it. But in that same post he only says we are aware of the issues with Munck.

It would be nice to know that the fest is somewhat as pissed off as some of us with their choice of music retailers.

[voodoodaddy]

Same story with me, I'm afraid...I bought one download (Allen Toussaint), after nearly two months I haven't got it yet. I seem to get one email response every two weeks; in the latest one he just said if I gave him my address he'd send the CD (Why he couldn't just upload the music properly so I could d/l it is another question). I will believe I'm getting this on the day I see it...Maybe later.

If they're still doing the live recordings next year I won't boycott...I'll just buy them on the fairgrounds (or in the LMF) and never again make a remote order. I have no problem with their actual product, on those occasions when they deliver it.

Similar story with me with the Toussaint disc. After charging me twice for the Paul Sanchez show (which I didn't get) I eventually agreed for them to give me the Toussaint show as well rather than a refund which I didn't think I'd ever get. After dozens of emails I finally got the Sanchez download but then of course the Toussaint download didn't work. I was told that they'd post me the Toussaint disc but no sight of it yet.

This is far and away the worst customer service I've ever experienced, in any business.

No email response, no apologies, no attempts at appeasing a paying customer. Just unbelievable.

The annoying part is the monopoly they've got as I will want to get the 09 compilation and others but I really don't want to go through all this again.

[voodoodaddy]

Just an update here - I still haven't had any joy out of these incompetents. Despite almost daily emails I get a response about once every 2 weeks with some lame excuse and promises that it will be fixed, but then nothing....

I know I could have cancelled the payment through my credit card company, but that makes it too easy on Munck. They've got my money, now they have to give me the disc I've paid for. Like the poster above said, I don't know why they can't just set up a download for the Toussaint disc - after all that is their business, selling downloads and CD's.

I've never experienced anything so infuriating and they are going to keep hearing from me until I get what I paid for.

What concerns me is how many other people out there that we don't know about who are innocently stumbling into their website and losing their money.

:mad: :mad:

[Lostcajun]

I'm done with them as well. To bad. You'd think the NOJHF would pay attention to this thread. Perhaps they do. They authorize Jazzfestlive to do business with them. You'd think they would show some concern. I don't know perhaps it's the responsibility of Quint's Festival Productions...

[Baconwrapped]

It is frustrating... and more so that they made so many promises about addressing the problems -- especially customer relations -- in my OffBeat story. They must realize that they are losing their best customers. Or is even that giving them too much credit?

But Munck IS a business partner with NOJHF and therefore this is tarnishing the Fest image as well....

[voodoodaddy]

It is frustrating... and more so that they made so many promises about addressing the problems -- especially customer relations -- in my OffBeat story. They must realize that they are losing their best customers. Or is even that giving them too much credit?

But Munck IS a business partner with NOJHF and therefore this is tarnishing the Fest image as well....

Indeed it is. I'm going to be emailing NOJHF with this whole sorry tale when I get the chance.

[stynger]

I wonder what if anything will change next year.

[bRETT]

I gave up emailing them, but I never got my Toussaint disc. If they're at the Fest next year I'll show up and hand them all the printouts...otherwise it's a dead issue.

Anyone that did get it want to burn me a copy?